Statistics for right wing Baptists

[billwald]

http://www.freemoneyfinance.com/2010/08/big-difference-between-average-and-median-net-worths.html



"Here's an interesting post from Thomas Stanley (the Millionaires Next Door author) that sheds some interesting light on average versus median net worths in the US:

"The average net worth of an American household is $434,782. However, there is a major problem with this wealth figure. When it comes to expressing the net worth/wealth of a household the average figure is very misleading. The presence of high net worth households, billionaires like Buffet and Gates, for example, highly skews the distribution and thus the average in an upward direction.

"The median measure of household net worth paints a much more accurate picture of the character of wealth in America than does the average. The median is that of the typical household, the mid point range of all of the more than 115,000,000 households ranked from bottom to top along the net worth scale.

"Today the median net worth of an American household is $91,304. It now costs more than this amount for a one year stay, drugs excluded, in a high grade nursing home. Therefore, less than one half of the households in this country do not have enough to pay for such a service even if they sold everything they owned and worked for.

"The $91,304 net worth figure also is indicative of something else. The typical American worker who becomes unemployed today has only about two years of wealth to live on before he hits economic ground zero.

"Most American households are nowhere near being financially independent. Nor will most be able to retire in comfort. Yet there is more bad news. What if the equity in homes and motor vehicles is factored out of the median net worth figure? Then the median figure is about $34,000 or about 2/3 of the annual median income generated by a typical American household today."


IN OTHER WORDS, "MIDDLE INCOME" MEANS "POOR."

 

[LadyEagle]

We know this without the study, but where do the right-wing Baptists fit in????

Seems like a slam against us, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt.....

 

[billwald]

If you all know this then I apologize for wasting bandwidth.

But if you all know this then why do many of you think that wages are to high and that the rich should pay less taxes?

 

[targus]

If you all know this then I apologize for wasting bandwidth.

But if you all know this then why do many of you think that wages are to high and that the rich should pay less taxes?

We don't think that wages are too high...

However the wages paid to public union employees with our tax money so that they can turn around and give a chunck of it to Democrats who in turn take the payoff to raise public union employee wages and benefits even further are too high.

I don't need to tell you - after all as a former public union employee you rode that gravy train.

 

[mandym]

If you all know this then I apologize for wasting bandwidth.

But if you all know this then why do many of you think that wages are to high and that the rich should pay less taxes?

Everyone should pay the same percentage regardless of income level. Your hatred of the rich is not impressive.

 

[InTheLight]

"Today the median net worth of an American household is $91,304. It now costs more than this amount for a one year stay, drugs excluded, in a high grade nursing home. Therefore, less than one half of the households in this country do not have enough to pay for such a service even if they sold everything they owned and worked for.

So less than half the households in America can afford a year stay in a HIGH GRADE nursing home. And this is supposed to be some relevant statistic? You might as well say, "less than half the households in America can afford a 60 day around the world tour" or "less than half the households in America can afford a 3 year lease on a Lamborghini Aventador."

 

[LadyEagle]

This is why obamacare has the death panels......just saying.

 

[freeatlast]

"Statistics for right wing Baptists"
Bill are you getting enough rest? :sleep:

 

[Havensdad]

I get very sick of hearing about the "poor underpaid Americans" who can barely scrape by making 90k dollars per year. I make about 30 thousand dollars per year, and we live quite comfortably. People need to quit trying to "keep up with the Jones'" and maybe they could afford healthcare!

 

[billwald]

>>"Today the median net worth of an American household is $91,304. It now costs more than this amount for a one year stay, drugs excluded, in a high grade nursing home. Therefore, less than one half of the households in this country do not have enough to pay for such a service even if they sold everything they owned and worked for.


>So less than half the households in America can afford a year stay in a HIGH GRADE nursing home

So less than half of all American families can afford to put their parents in a high grade nursing home for as long as two years.

 

[billwald]

>I get very sick of hearing about the "poor underpaid Americans" who can barely scrape by making 90k dollars per year.

A family should be able live quite comfortably on $90K.


> I make about 30 thousand dollars per year, and we live quite comfortably.

I was comfortable for 2 years living in a 23 foot travel trailer. As I recall, the trailer cost around $1,500 used but clean. The camping club dues were $500/year and the utilities less than $50/month. The Wife was not happy. <G>

Where do you live and what are your living circumstances?

In WA minimum wage is around $9/hour, $20K/year. In Seattle median family income is around $60K with two people working.

 

[LadyEagle]

So less than half of all American families can afford to put their parents in a high grade nursing home for as long as two years.

From the Medicare web site:

Nursing Homes
Paying for Care

Medicare

Under certain limited conditions, Medicare will pay some nursing home costs for Medicare beneficiaries who require skilled nursing or rehabilitation services. To be covered, you must receive the services from a Medicare certified skilled nursing home after a qualifying hospital stay. A qualifying hospital stay is the amount of time spent in a hospital just prior to entering a nursing home. This is at least three days. To learn more about Medicare payment for skilled nursing home costs, contact your Medicare Fiscal Intermediary or the State Health Insurance Assistance Program (SHIP) in your State. The phone number for the Medicare Fiscal Intermediary or SHIP office in your area can be found in the Helpful Contacts section of this website.

Medicaid

Medicaid is a State and Federal program that will pay most nursing home costs for people with limited income and assets. Eligibility varies by State. Check your State's requirements to learn if you are eligible. Medicaid will pay only for nursing home care provided in a facility certified by the government to provide service to Medicaid recipients. For more information about Medicaid payments, call the SHIP for your State or call your State's Medicaid office. The telephone number is in the blue pages of the phone book.

Personal Resources

About half of all nursing home residents pay nursing home costs out of their own savings. After these savings and other resources are spent, many people who stay in nursing homes for long periods eventually become eligible for Medicaid.

Managed Care Plans

A managed care plan will not help pay for care unless the nursing home has a contract with the plan. If the home is approved by your plan, learn if the plan also monitors the home for quality of nursing care.

Medicare Supplemental Insurance

This is private insurance. It's often called Medigap because it helps pay for gaps in Medicare coverage such as deductibles and co-insurances. Most Medigap plans will help pay for skilled nursing care, but only when that care is covered by Medicare. Some people use employer group health plans or long-term care insurance to help cover nursing home costs.

Long-Term Care Insurance

This is a private policy. The benefits and costs of these plans vary widely. For more information on these plans, contact the National Association of Insurance Commissioners (NAIC). It represents state health insurance regulators and has a free publication called "A Shopper's Guide to Long-Term Care Insurance." You also can get a copy of the Guide to Health Insurance for People with Medicare: by calling 1-800-MEDICARE.

Counseling and Assistance

SHIPs have counselors who might be able to answer your questions about how to pay for nursing home care, the coverage you may already have, or whether there are any government programs that will help with your expenses.

http://www.medicare.gov/nursing/payment.asp


Of course, probably most of this will change under obamacare.

Edited to add: Medicaid eligibility requirements may vary from state to state. Cost of living varies from state to state, i.e., the Northeast (New York, New Jersey, etc.) have much higher costs of living than most Southern States. Even for real property....location, location, location. Ever watch HGTV programs about House Hunters?

Minimum wage: I am against raising the minimum wage to even $10/hr. Raising the minimum wage puts increased burdens on small businesses and many would have to shut their doors. Small businesses that are struggling right now to keep their doors open may have to close their doors if the minimum wage was raised, then more people are out of work.

Wages should be paid according to market supply and demand. If a fast food worker makes $7/hr but across the street, another fast food restaurant is paying $8/hr, the worker is free to go there. Sometimes there are "wage wars" between businesses in certain industries and the market sets the wage. But then, I am for the free market and not for "redistributing the wealth."

 

[OldRegular]

This is why obamacare has the death panels......just saying.

:tear: but true!:tear:

 

[Ed B]

I get very sick of hearing about the "poor underpaid Americans" who can barely scrape by making 90k dollars per year. I make about 30 thousand dollars per year, and we live quite comfortably. People need to quit trying to "keep up with the Jones'" and maybe they could afford healthcare!

This last statement interests me. How does a married couple in their early 50's with some pre-existing conditions afford healthcare while making about 30K per year? The bare-bones policies I have priced indicate at least 1/4 of that $30k would go to health care before I ever visited a doctor. Maybe I am not looking in the right place? The pre-existing conditions are well controlled T2 diabetes, arthritic knee (3 surgeries over about 25 years) and diagnosed bulging discs at L4 and L5.

 

[Ed B]

Originally Posted by LadyEagle
This is why obamacare has the death panels......just saying.

:tear: but true!:tear:

Death panels already exist. I found this out during my father's decline and passing. I thought this was a red herring argument. Now I realize it is real but has nothing to do with Obama.

For the record, I am not an Obama supporter and have never voted for a Democratic candidate for POTUS.

 

[Havensdad]

This last statement interests me. How does a married couple in their early 50's with some pre-existing conditions afford healthcare while making about 30K per year? The bare-bones policies I have priced indicate at least 1/4 of that $30k would go to health care before I ever visited a doctor. Maybe I am not looking in the right place? The pre-existing conditions are well controlled T2 diabetes, arthritic knee (3 surgeries over about 25 years) and diagnosed bulging discs at L4 and L5.

Curious what policy you are calling "bare bones." My wife's conditions are extensive, far worse than what you have listed here, and great insurance runs about 4000 per year...nowhere NEAR the 7500 dollars you are calling "1/4".

However, even if it were 1/3, it is very possible to live on 20k dollars per year. I have done it, with 3 kids no less. It just takes the right attitude. People can't do it, not because it cannot be done, but because they don't want to drive 5 to 10 year old cars, cook, and not have cellphones, cable, and internet.

 

[freeatlast]

This last statement interests me. How does a married couple in their early 50's with some pre-existing conditions afford healthcare while making about 30K per year? The bare-bones policies I have priced indicate at least 1/4 of that $30k would go to health care before I ever visited a doctor. Maybe I am not looking in the right place? The pre-existing conditions are well controlled T2 diabetes, arthritic knee (3 surgeries over about 25 years) and diagnosed bulging discs at L4 and L5.

Ed it is done by learning and following a teaching I call wants and needs. One of the biggest problems today with the finances of the average American is that they do not know the difference between wants and needs and even worse they call wants, needs.

A need is what it takes for that person to survive that day as tomorrow does not belong to us. A want is anything else. So 30,000 a year in income for two people is very sustainable IF they will learn the teaching of wants and needs.
I have posted before on this and some people think it cannot be done, but I can do food shopping for a month and only spend 60 dollars per person for the whole month using wants and needs. So yes 30,000 for two people is very livable IF they are willing to live within their income bracket and even have a decent savings on the side.
I can actually cut just about anyone's average annual expenditures by at least 25% and many far more then that. The problem is very few are willing to do what it takes.

 

[Ed B]

Curious what policy you are calling "bare bones." My wife's conditions are extensive, far worse than what you have listed here, and great insurance runs about 4000 per year...nowhere NEAR the 7500 dollars you are calling "1/4".

However, even if it were 1/3, it is very possible to live on 20k dollars per year. I have done it, with 3 kids no less. It just takes the right attitude. People can't do it, not because it cannot be done, but because they don't want to drive 5 to 10 year old cars, cook, and not have cellphones, cable, and internet.

I was looking at carriers that I at least recognize and have been looking at low end Blue Cross Blue shield policies.

In a few years I will be eligible for retirement and I am interested in changing careers where income and benefits are not the primary motivations. I have to assume and prepare for the likelihood that I must provide my own health insurance for my wife and me, so I have been pricing policies. Currently I have health insurance from my employer managed by Aetna No way I can afford a private family policy through them and I am under no illusion that private coverage will match what we get from work. I am three years away from having to make a decision, but your experiences do interest me as I plan for a future change.

Here are examples based only on age, hieght, and weight and the two of us being non-smokers

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[LadyEagle]

Curious what policy you are calling "bare bones." My wife's conditions are extensive, far worse than what you have listed here, and great insurance runs about 4000 per year...nowhere NEAR the 7500 dollars you are calling "1/4".

Are you on a state subsidized risk pool?

When I checked about private health insurance last year (didn't have employer plan), the premiums were unaffordable, very unaffordable with pre-existing conditions (hypertension, etc.).

I have checked with other people and for a single person, the premiums on private health insurance run about $350/month, for a family of 5 (in good health) about $1200/mo. So, you are very fortunate indeed.

So, with obamacare, they can't turn you down for pre-existing conditions anymore, but there is no cap or ceiling on the premiums you will have to pay to get it, because they made deals with the insurance companies.

Anyway, back on topic, I posted the info above about Medicaid, Medicare, and nursing homes.

 

[billwald]

>Are you on a state subsidized risk pool?

Which is plain old welfare, same as Medicare and SSI.