Strict and Particular Baptist, UK

rlvaughn asked be to post something on the Baptist Association (not denomination, yecch) I am a part of, so here goes.

As many will know the Particular Baptists (calvinistic) got going around 1633. In 1644 the London Baptist Confession was issued. In my own town of Northampton, two baptist groups began meeting under the auspices of Mother churches by about 1655. One was wholly Baptist, the other a common Baptist/Congregational mix. The latter, to mention them briefly, enchurched in 1697, obtained a Chapel building in 1712ish, and became known to the world as College Lane Chapel, where the Ryland's were pastors, and with whom William Carey was involved.

The former enchurched in 1701, having been set loose by their mother church when the group went Strict Baptist (ie, practising restricted communion, rather than the alternative of mixed reformed communion - as at College Lane.) The church obtained a chapel building in 1726, and were patronised by the likes of John Gill, John Brine, and other worthies. Sadly it closed down around 1760.

The Particulars, and the Stricts remained throughly reformed down to Gill's death, but then we saw the rise of Fullerism (stemming from the New Divinity of New England, with Grotius thrown in) Robert Hall published his Help for Zion's Traveller, and Fuller his Gospel Worthy of all Acceptation. This engendered a split in the ranks between the New lights and the Old.

In the middle of all this, God had raised up Wiliam Huntington, an independant minister, in London. He became a prominent voice against the new doctrines. Many Baptists heard and received his ministry, and a good number of our Chief Men were saved thru his ministry, or thru a connection with it, such as William Gadsby, John Warburton and John Kershaw.

Thru this ministry a division took place in the Particular Baptists, sometimes people coming out, sometimes the Fullerites being cast out; sometimes a brand new work, and sometimes a whole association taking a stand, as with the Norfolk and Suffolk Assoc.

Our own church was started in 1791 by a group excommunicated from College Lane by Ryland. Thru the beginning of the 1800s such churches began to get together, and in 1834 a magazine was started - The Gospel Standard. This was followed by another magazine for a slightly different group - The Earthen Vessel. These were the main Strict Baptist assocs - and I think they reaffirmed being strict to avoid receiving Fullerite; certainly Northampton did not start Strict.

Later, J C Philpot came out of the Anglican Church and joined as a minister; he edited the magazine for a good few years.

There was a division in the later part of the 19th cent, over the issue of the Eternal Sonship of Christ, which was denied by some. This led to a distancing between the GS and EV churches. The EV churches eventually became known as Grace Baptist - though not tainted with that old slur anymore. They are drifting somewhat to the left now, with a good number becoming more evangelical, modern, and in cases charismatic even.

Our own assoc has fallen on hard times. Fossilization has set in, along with hyper Calvinism, hyper experimentalism, and the ravages of, on the one hand what one might call Bethesdaism - people waiting by the pool, so that our churches are predominantly attenders not members because people won't get baptised unless they have a word from the lOrd; and on the other, youth going to college and coming back - if at all - evangelical.
Demographic surveys of our assoc show that it will cease to exist within twenty years, due to an aging membership, and large chapel buildings that cannot be maintained. Our ministers are aging also, and the younger, such as they come forward, do not seem to have fire in their belly for the work, but to be pale imitations.

And Northampton?
We lost a preaching deacon sometime ago when he was called to a pastorate; he immediately took the church out of the association. Peter Masters at the Metropolitan Tabernacle has a big influence amongst a lot of our younger ministers.
At the end of 2000 our pastor also left to take the pastorate of an evangelical methodist church; he too has renounced his connections.
By the grace of God, I, who joined the church 10 years ago this march, and had been preaching on and off for a few years, was asked to stand in the breach, pending further leadings from the Lord. In time, I believe they will call me as pastor.

And by the grace of God, I hope to have some fire in my belly for the faith once delivered, without having to "go wide" to get it. We are reconciled to the fact that in time we will have to stand as a wholly independant baptist church, but God has shown his hand, and people are a lot more confident of his keeping grace than they were two years ago, when it seemed as if a chasm was opening before them.

peace in Him

 

Thanks Jeff.

I have the edition of Gill's Sermons and Tracts published by primitive Publications.

I have enjoyed the PB webstation and related sites. The term "hardshell" is, I think, applied in the same way that "anti-mission" was applied to us - despite the fact that William Gadsby alone was instrumental in founding 40 churches across England.

The main distinctives of GS doctrine is a) that the Gospel, not the moral law, is the believer's rule of life, and b) the denial of the duty faith doctrine that rose up under Fuller et al.
Practically, although I do not know why, we only have the two offices of Pastor and Deacon - which means that most men who can preach are sent out itinerating almost immediately.

Historically, I don't think there has been much communication between the SBs over here and the PBs over there, which is a shame; men like Beebe etc are not known here at all, although men like Gadsby are known in America through the Welsh Tract Church.

The church at Choteau MO, also run Gospel Mission, reprinting godly literature from the 19th and 18th cents.

 

Originally posted by Jeff Weaver:
I have that set as well. I was able to find an original set of Gill's commentaries. Wish I could find a reprint and not have to use the old one so often, it is in fragile condition. Im sure there is one out there, just have to look harder.

They are on CD now, from Ages Software. Not as nice as a book, but more usable. There was an edition in the late 19cent early 20th in 6 volumes. They last better. Baptist Standard Bearer did reprint them also, but it was pricy, and I don't know if they are still available.

Yes, we are called hardshells, anti-mission, etc. Labels can be difficult to overcome, and sometimes not worth the effort.

amen. Banner of Truth have us in their sites, almost constantly, in spite of being set up by an SB, Sidney Norton.

I would fully agree with that as well. Unfortunately denying Fuller, et.al. were correct will get one labeled a hyper-calvinist in the U.S. There is considerable rumour about our beliefs here which circulate as fact. That was the main reason I signed on to this forum -- to correct some of those misimpressions.

Me too; and to meet stateside people like yourself. Mission Accomplished!!

This is one are where the practice in America would be different. Deacons are not preachers in American Primtive Baptist churches. Men are also not sent out until they have been proven at home in most cases.

A much better method, and applied in my own circumstances. I ministered in Adult Bible Classes, then filled in for the Pastor during absences. Then was given my own dates. It seemed all along that the Lord was preparing me for labours within the church, but we didn't ewxpect the way it would happen! There was a lot of opposition too, but that was removed also. I have not sought to be sent out, and neither does the church want to send me.

Gadsby is known, as is William Huntington, J. C. Philpot and some others. When I was in the army I took some time away from station in Germany to explore London, and found a set of Philpots works. When I got home, they were begged from me, and I no longer have them. I have some of S. F. Paul's histories, and have considered buying some more things from GS publications.

Again, Gospel Mission have made available the old Gospel Pulpit of Philpot's sermons; and the GS edition is still around. Try www.christianbookshopossett.co.uk for second hand editions. AbeBooks on the web is also helpful.

In the for what it is worth category, I was pastor for a time of the First Baptist Church Old School of WIlmington, Delaware, which was a daughter church of Welsh Tract. The Wilmington church was established in 1785 and was a very large church at one time, but now is in a much reduced state. Unfortunately there have been schisms which have broken fellowship between the two.

sadly, it happens too much these days.

Have you been to the U.S.? If so, did you venture out among the Primitive Baptist people?

No, 'fraid not; not been out of the country

[ January 27, 2003, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: Solly ]

 

I think it was Erasmus who said, If I have a little money I buy books. Don't we all!! And we never have enough.

Thankyou for the offer. I'm not in a position to return the favour in current circumstances, being in a small house with a large family, but arrangements could probably be made.

I know FF, but not the sermon series. Is that Stanley Delves or Peter Rowell? The people on the CBO link will be able to help in that for similar material.

regards in Him

Tony

 

Hello rlv

yes, they were a smaller group that grew up in the later 19th cent, but were eventually reabsorbed into the Earthen Vessel group.

The running joke used to be, apparently: I am only an Earthen Vessel, but I maintain the Gospel Standard as I walk the Christian Pathway.

 

As to the tenor of this forum, it is something we should all strive at. I have recently been on a forum where a great deal of rancour was displayed by the administration to views in opposition to their own - they are an Acts 9 Dispensationalist, Open View Theism, Theonomy site - although most people did not know that. I have now been made a moderator on the new breakaway site, and certainly hope to conduct things in a right spirit.
My motto is: Fides Querens Intellectum - Faith seeking understanding. Even Calvinists and Arminians should strive to understand the other's view, since we can't properly critique it until we do. Having launched into such a debate with all guns blazing, I soon learned that I had a lot to unlearn.

If it is allowed, I will post the http of the site later.

Thankyou for the opportunity to discuss things here. I have "borrowed" the idea on the other site, to stem "denomination knocking" and foster mutual understanding.

peace in Him

 

Thaks for the info.

RE hymns, any by John Adams from the 18th cent were written by the man who founded our church. he sat under Huntington for a few years also.

There is a hymn floating around by Sarah Slinn, which I saw in an American Baptist hymnal; I believe that she is the same as a Sarah Slinn who was in the church at the same time.