Suicide and 911

[standingfirminChrist]

Simple beliefs are easy...please don't go complicate things with logic. :thumbsup:

The wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.

 

[xdisciplex]

These hypothetical questions are not even biblical in nature.

Eh????

Well I guess if you should ever be kidnapped by terrorists simply close your eyes and tell them that this whole situation is not real because it's not biblical. Maybe when you open your eyes again everything is gone and you find yourself sitting at home on your desk in front of your bible. It's worth a try, isn't it? :thumbsup:

 

[Amy.G]

But usually greek words have many different possible meanings at the same time. How exactly do you know that this word always means murder?

Because he said so.....:BangHead:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Makes your head hurt to think in the abstract, huh?

Straight is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life eternal and few there be that find it.

 

[xdisciplex]

Because he said so.....:BangHead:

Oh. I didn't know that he was involved in the writing of the King James bible.

 

[Lagardo]

The word murder would not be in there if it did not mean murder.

Your lexicon is not scripture. The word you are referring to may mean murder, but does not necessarily mean murder. Could just as well mean to take or adopt...according to your lexicon.

There is a greek word which specifically means murder. It is used throughout the New Testament, twice even by Luke. Yet, it is not used in Acts 16:27.

 

[ccrobinson]

The Word of God is clear on the subject of suicide. Seems many want to rewrite the Word to say just some murderers will end up in the lake of fire. Seems some want to change the Word to say 'we know that some murderers have eternal life abiding in them.'

Seems that you want to add another sin to the list of unpardonable sins. Seems that you want Mark 3:29 to say, "But he that either shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost, or kill himself, have never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation."

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Because he said so.....:BangHead:

No, because the Word of God says so.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Your lexicon is not scripture. The word you are referring to may mean murder, but does not necessarily mean murder. Could just as well mean to take or adopt...according to your lexicon.

There is a greek word which specifically means murder. It is used throughout the New Testament, twice even by Luke. Yet, it is not used in Acts 16:27.

And your teaching that suicides will not go to hell is not Scripture.

 

[Lagardo]

And your teaching that suicides will not go to hell is not Scripture.

Interesting non-response. So we agree, then, that the Bible does not necessarily imply "murder" in Acts 16:27?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Let's see...

He took out his sword and would have adopted himself.... nope doesn't fit.

He took out his sword and would have abolished himself... still does not make sense.

But kill does mean murder, slay, put to death when you read the context. He was going to end his life. A roman soldier could have been killed for losing prisoners in his charge. He thought he had lost those in his charge. Instead of letting his superiors murder him, he decided to murder himself.

I will use HBSMN's tag here...

"If the literal sense makes sense, seek no other sense, lest it result in nonsense." M.R. DeHaan

Suicide is murder. No murderers have eternal life abiding in them. All murderers will have their part in the lake of fire.

"If the literal sense makes sense, seek no other sense, lest it result in nonsense." M.R. DeHaan

 

[Lagardo]

And yet, despite your cliches, the Bible still did not specifically say murder, did it?

 

[Lagardo]

The context that the guard was going to kill himself is a given. You attempted to say that the Bible calls this murder because it specifically says murder in the Greek.

It does not. Address the point, please, or resign the argument.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

It does say murder in the Greek.

 

[Scarlett O.]

of course that isnt suicide but I dont like this idea of taking things to the extreme to try to make it look as if suicide is ok.

Claudia, I don't think anyone believes that suicide is OK. We only believe that suicide is not an automatic ticket to hell.

Killing yourself is murdering yourself under normal circumstances. One could take anything to the extreme to try to make it look ridiculous.

It isnt ok to kill oneself

Again, no one claims that. And no one is claiming ridicule.

We only believe that if a person submitted to the Lordship of Jesus Christ and has his sins covered by the Atoning Blood, then his tragic and unfortunate suicide is one of those sins covered.

You could also try to null out "thou shalt not kill" by saying "well I could possibly step on a gnat so Im breaking the law anyway so we may as well throw out the law of God then"

oh yeah! I forgot, thats what lots of people do anyway

Talk about straining at gnats!

Sister, no one wants to "throw out" the law of God.

its kinda like the new modern day Pharisees...

Just anything to avoid having to actually keep the Law of God inwardly and not just outwardly...

the only difference between the Pharisees in Christ's day and the modern day Pharisees is they have it in the reverse.The old style Pharisees kept the law outwardly but not inwardly but the modern day Pharisees dont think you have to keep it either outwardly OR inwardly.

What does a hellish situation of being trapped on the 100th floor of a burning building and watching others burn alive and being so afraid of burning alive that you make the choice of getting away from the fire, even at the cost of jumping out of a window have to do the hellish people who will not obey the commands of God.

Jesus told them they needed to clean the inside of the cup instead of just the outside of it. He never said dont clean the cup at all.

I don't see anyone who believes that Jesus said "don't clean the cup at all."

Yes, Claudia, He did say to clean the inside. That's in Matthew 23:25. If you will back up a couple of verse, He also said that the Pharisees were obsessed with keeping up a good "religious" appearance and have never found the "meat" of the law.....or the purpose of the law.

He said that those purposes were to bring about judgment, mercy, and faith.

This is just straining at gnats in the reverse.

No, it isn't.

This is an obscene thread. Implying that people who, from a place of irrational fear and animalistic panic who chose to leap from a burning building rather than burn alive, are in hell because of that choice.

Just "turn to Jesus". That should have saved their life and their sanity?

How many times have those of us on this thread gone through a crisis in our lives and we depended on our own logic or the world to get us through it? We all have. We've all depended at some time or another to doubt that God could see us through something.

We are human....in the flesh. And we battle that flesh daily.

But I guarantee you this. Not one person on this board has ever faced what those people on the top floors of the WTC who died either by fire or by jumping faced on that day.

And to sit back on a moral high-chair and say, "well, they should have just trusted God and burnt up, 'cause when they jumped they went to hell"......

......that is the most horrible thing that I have ever heard anyone say on the BB. Let me be clear here and state that I am not saying that you, personally, said that.

But others have.

 

[Claudia_T]

Like I said before, THou shalt not Kill.... that entire second half of the 10 commandments about your neighbor is "Love thy neighbor ... AS THYSELF"

so how in the world can you think it is allright to kill yourself but not your neighbor if you are to love your neighbor AS THYSELF?

I think its just silly to even have a question about this... suicide is self-murder. You are just taking your own life as opposed to taking someone elses

 

[Claudia_T]

Claudia, I don't think anyone believes that suicide is OK. We only believe that suicide is not an automatic ticket to hell.




Again, no one claims that. And no one is claiming ridicule.

We only believe that if a person submitted to the Lordship of Jesus Christ and has his sins covered by the Atoning Blood, then his tragic and unfortunate suicide is one of those sins covered.



Sister, no one wants to "throw out" the law of God.



What does a hellish situation of being trapped on the 100th floor of a burning building and watching others burn alive and being so afraid of burning alive that you make the choice of getting away from the fire, even at the cost of jumping out of a window have to do the hellish people who will not obey the commands of God.



I don't see anyone who believes that Jesus said "don't clean the cup at all."

Yes, Claudia, He did say to clean the inside. That's in Matthew 23:25. If you will back up a couple of verse, He also said that the Pharisees were obsessed with keeping up a good "religious" appearance and have never found the "meat" of the law.....or the purpose of the law.

He said that those purposes were judgment, mercy, and faith.



No, it isn't.

This is an obscene thread. Implying that people who, from a place of irrational fear and animalistic panic who chose to leap from a burning building rather than burn alive, are in hell because of that choice.

Just "turn to Jesus". That should have saved their life and their sanity?

How many times have those of us on this thread gone through a crisis in our lives and we depended on our own logic or the world to get us through it? We all have. We've all depended at some time or another to doubt that God could see us through something.

We are human....in the flesh. And we battle that flesh daily.

But I guarantee you this. Not one person on this board has ever faced what those people on the top floors of the WTC who died either by fire or by jumping faced on that day.

And to sit back on a moral high-chair and say, "well, they should have just trusted God and burnt up, 'cause when they jumped they went to hell"......

......that is the most horrible thing that I have ever heard anyone say on the BB.

somehow I think you mustve misunderstood everything I said... or just havent read all my posts on these threads about suicide

 

[Claudia_T]

scarlett,

you need to go read all my posts on these suicide threads... you have a really distorted view of what my views are. I think its absurd even to ask if the question, of course they'd jump out of the building, what else would anyone expect them to do? I just view it as a question that doesnt even need to be talked about

 

[Scarlett O.]

My apologies if I have miscontrued anything you have said.

 

[Amy.G]

Originally Posted by Claudia_T
and thats what Im saying... we cannot know EVERYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY situation and how God is going to view it, because He alone knows the heart

I think its just silly to even have a question about this... suicide is self-murder. You are just taking your own life as opposed to taking someone elses

Claudia, I am confused. You seem to be going from one side of the fence to the other. On the one hand you say only God knows the heart and then on the other you say if someone commits suicide they are a murderer. Which is it?