Taking Merry Christmas out of greetings

I'm sorry, but this is an absolutely ridiculous issue to me. What is wrong with secular companies saying "Happy Holidays", thereby acknowledging there are many different celebrations during this time of year? Man, some Christians are "making a mountain out of a mole hill". Get over it already. It really has nothing to do with suppressing Christianity, but more to do with respecting all customers beliefs, not just those who celebrate Christmas. BTW, there are many non-Christians who celebrate Christmas, so I do not really consider it a "Christian" holiday. The only thing that makes "Christmas" Christian is if it is a celebration of the birth of Christ, which does not need to include gifts, or a tree.

 

I agree with you that Christmas is not really a Christian holiday, but the issue here is the ACLU attacking the civil liberties of those with whom they disagree. A company should be able to say "happy holidays" or "merry Christmas" or whatever they wish, without the government interfering. If customers don't like it, they should feel free to shop elsewhere.

 

Can you point to a specific case or event? This sounds like a broadbrush generalization. I personally can't find any judicial examples of a municipality or company getting sued for saying "Merry Christmas".

I was just at Disneyland, and the carolers on Main Street sang religious carols, and said "Mery Christmas" to the passersby. Disney is one of the largest companies in the US that comes into public contact, and they appear to be immune from the ACLU on this issue.

[ November 30, 2005, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]

 

Johnv...please don't ask for documentation that the ACLU is behind making businesses say "Season Greetings" instead of "Merry Christmas". Instead just send money to the religious hucksters that love to use the ACLU as a bogeyman to raise cash.

 

It seems like there are some right-wing fanatics who get all upset when everyone in the world doesn't believe everything just like they do.

Two whole businesses? Christianity must surely be under heavy persecution here in America!

I'm sure there are a lot of businesses that are owned by people who are not Christians. Frankly, as long as the store has what I am shopping for and the prices are good, I don't care if they even talk to me or not.

Frankly, I'm surprised that there are many Baptist here who are so hyper-fundamentalist that they give Christianity a bad name.

 

There isn't a constitutional issue here. I can't see where the "illustrious ACLU" could be involved. Private companies can tell their employeed to say whatever they want to when they talk to customers. If employees don't like working for a company that won't allow them to say Merry Christmas they should look for another job. It's the company ownership (most likely Republican) who's behind this, not the dreaded ACLU.

 

From the radio I heard a pretty long list of stores that were jumping on the band wagon to exclude saying Merry Christmas. Probably a democratic thing for gearing up on the next election with the same mentality and agenda of Ex-Pres. Carter’s book; they must be getting pretty scared about the new Supreme Court and the threat of a trend back to Christian morals. I won’t be shopping to support any of these stores who want to cash in on the holiday while dissing it.

 

So one is a liberal Christian now when they want to see actual documentation that the ACLU is behind businesses not allowing employees to say "Merry Christmas"????

Guess that means you have no documentation for your claim.

 

I found this on the American Family Association website:

*********Several retailers have joined in the push to ban the use of "Christmas" in their in-store promotions and retail advertising. The new push to ban "Christmas" and replace it with "Happy Holidays," "Season's Greetings," etc. is gaining ground with several retailers participating.

So far, the list includes Kmart, Sears, Kohl's, Home Depot, Lowe's, Target, JC Penney, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Kroger, Office Max, Walgreens, Staples, BJ's, and Dell.

Update: Lowe's has removed all "Holiday Tree" signs and now refer to ALL trees as "Christmas Trees." **********

I'm not sure if they attribute this to the ACLU, but I do believe it is the work of Satan. He is trying to take Christ out of CHRISTMAS, as well as the foundation of our nation, the home, the public eye, etc.

 

First of all no one has yet to show how the ACLU is involved in this whole situation, and doubt anyone will. Secondly, these are secular companies which service more than just "Christians who celebrate Christmas". They are making a busines decision, to make a point, to include everyone in their greetings. I find no fault with them, nor do I believe they are trying to take Christ out of Christmas. Their bottom line is to make money, and they feel they will make more money if they are all inclusive. IMO, some Christians are overreacting.

 

Why do we believe anyone has the power to take Christ out of Christmas?

Shouldn't we be glad that non-believers are not acting in pretense to hold any attachment to Christian beliefs externally but deny them inwardly?

Why should we need Target to tell us "Merry Christmas"? Are they an openly Christian company?

 

I take outright offense to those comments. I have no love for the ACLU, but it is by no means unreasonable to ask for specifics to support your comments. It's as ridiculous as saying "the worls is flat, and if you ask me for support, then you are a liberal". Ridiculous, not to mention self-righteous, pharasaical, and holier-than-thou.

A private business has the right to do so. You have completely failed to make any correlation between those two local business doing so, and the ACLU. It appears that your comments in the OP are untrue after all. I've alredy provided one example of a large company not only permitting, but encouraging they employees to say "Merry Christmas".

Feel free to post a link to your local news website. I suspect the story is not as you claim it to be.

Okay, Mr McCarthy, I'll put it simply like this. Scriptuer requires truthfulness in testimony. That is still true when it comes to accusing our enemy. You appear to haev accused the ACLU falsely. You don't have the right to do so just because the ACLU is an enemy. Again, I have no love for the ACLU, but that doesn't give me the right to make false claims about them.

 

Hey there,

Is this something that has been shown in a news report? Is there some information backing up the ACLU's alleged censorship of Christmas?

I'm not taking sides with the ACLU, but to make these types of claims against any particular group and not have any substantial evidenciary support is not very wise, is it?

 

Woody, bruren has declared that anyone who asks for specific information is a liberal.

 

This is almost humorous in itself. The Christmas tree is a Pagan symbol, so they revert to calling it a Christmas tree. Sort of appropriate.

Now, personally, I have no problem with celebrating the birth of our Lord and Savior during this period of time, even though it's almost impossible that this pagan holiday is when he was actually born, but importing a pagan symbol (the tree) is not a "return" to putting Christ back in Christmas.

Now, from what I have seen, the ACLU has only been instrumental in getting the phrase "Merry Christmas" removed from public work places. They remove the civil liberties from one person in order that the other person might not be offended. (If the offense is PC, however, it's "free speech".)

 

HoG, so far in this thread, there's been no support for the claim that the ACLU has been instrumental in getting the phrase "Merry Christmas" removed from public work places, or from private business that deal with the public. None. Lacking support, I must conclude that the OP claim is false.

 

By "public", I was referencing governmental jobs. The ACLU has taken several such cases, and they've won some and lost some. In one case in RI, the woman, represented by the ACLU, sued because she was offended by a Christian Christmas display. The display was set up by private citizens, alongside secular displays, not by the government. The courts ruled that you can't sue just because you're an offended observer.

However, in other places, governmental workplace rules were enacted; sometimes because of a court ruling and sometimes to avoid a lawsuit.

You can do a Google and come it with a multitude of lawsuits brought by the ACLU against governmental workplaces, but with varying outcomes. Where I used to live, government workers could be offensive under the concept of "free speech" as long as the speech was politically protected. However, if it was politically incorrect (such as Christian speech, or something ruled as sexual harassment), it was a big no-no. Common sense has left the building.

However, the ACLU has little, if any, bearing on private companies, and they absolutely should not.

I still find it humorous that changing the name of a pagan symbol from a "holiday tree" to a "Christmas tree" is somehow a return to Christianity.