Talking to the DEAD

[BobRyan]

Agnus-Dei said

If you will concede that the Saints are alive, is it reasonable then to suppose that these same Saints, who prayed for each other and for all Christians while on earth, would lose interest in us once they reach the kingdom of heaven?

That argument has merrit - but it denies what scripture says about the unconscious dormant state of people when they die.

The other problem with that is that the saints on earth did not have MAGIC POWERS to hear all prayers from all the earth -- and so to argue that they continue to have their same role while DEAD would still not grant them magic god-like powers.

And finally - your argument above assumes that we are supposed to talk to the dead instead of obeying Isaiah 8:20.

Agnus said
It is clear that even by the early centuries of the Church, intercession of the Saints was a well-established, widely accepted doctrine; -

#1. NOT by the first century saints.
#2. Paul states clearly in his letter to Titus, to Timothy and is sermon in Acts 20 that Doctrinal ERROR was already at work within the church.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Eliyahu]

No, I am not lying. I was never taught the Bible while in the Catholic Church, and to this day the Bible is not taught in the Catholic Church. My parents and other members of my extended family who are still Catholics are Biblically ignorant. My neighbor is Catholic and knows nothing of the Word of God. I do door to door evangelization. More than half the population is Catholic. I have never met a Catholic yet who has much knowledge of the Bible. The only time that I have is on this board. I even came across a house where some "brothers" were staying. They were unable to asnwer some basic questions from the Bible. Don't tell me that the Bible is taught in the Catholic Church. It is not, has never been taught. Historically the Bible has been kept from the common person, and the Bible has been burned in order to keep it away from the common person. The RCC hates to see the common person have the Bible. That is historical truth.
BTW, just because a portion of Scripture is read during the mass doesn't mean that the Bible is taught.

Sure, and how many Catholics seriuosly take the whole thing and study it, along with all the writings of the ECF's. You really have me laughing now. I doubt if your seminarians go that far.

After I got saved, the only pre-conceived ideas I had were those that I learned as a Catholic. For two years I studied the Bible on my own. As I studied the Bible I came to realize how contradictory the Catholic doctrine that I had been taught all my life was to the Bible. I knew I had to make a decision: follow God or follow the false teachings of the RCC. I chose God. I had no preconceived traditions that could influence me. I had only known Catholicism up to that point.

I am an Independent Fundamental Baptist.

That's exactly what I have experienced with Catholics.
I have never met any Catholic who could talk about the Bible in person, face to face. The people on this board seem to have never read the Bible in person, but they just bring the same Bible quotations from the Catholic Apologetic sites, they are ready-made answers by the hireling priests. This is why I asked Agnus Dei whether he has ever read thru the Bible on his own, thoroughly from Genesis to Revelation.

When I sat with a Catholic for Bible study, he said to me, "Roman Catholic study the Bible very much even though Protestants criticize we don't read the Bible". Then we started to read Galatians, he tried to find it out in OT, thereafter when we tried to read Isaiah 53, he searched it in the New Testament. I helped him quite a lot, and eventually he admitted that he had read the Bible during that hours more than what he read at Catholic during the past 30 years.

I still wait for the honest answer from Agnus Dei whether he has ever read thru the whole Bible wholeheartedly, from Genesis to Revelation. If he did indeed, the Holy Spirit must have convicted him of the Idolatry and paganism.

 

[tragic_pizza]

That argument has merrit - but it denies what scripture says about the unconscious dormant state of people when they die.

Except that there is no agreement that Scripture says this.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

No, I am not lying. I was never taught the Bible while in the Catholic Church, and to this day the Bible is not taught in the Catholic Church. My parents and other members of my extended family who are still Catholics are Biblically ignorant. My neighbor is Catholic and knows nothing of the Word of God. I do door to door evangelization. More than half the population is Catholic. I have never met a Catholic yet who has much knowledge of the Bible. The only time that I have is on this board. I even came across a house where some "brothers" were staying. They were unable to asnwer some basic questions from the Bible. Don't tell me that the Bible is taught in the Catholic Church. It is not, has never been taught. Historically the Bible has been kept from the common person, and the Bible has been burned in order to keep it away from the common person. The RCC hates to see the common person have the Bible. That is historical truth.
BTW, just because a portion of Scripture is read during the mass doesn't mean that the Bible is taught.

DHK, you know good and well that you can find people across the Protestant broad spectrum that doesn’t know much about the Bible. Even in my home IFB Church, out of 400 members, only 150+ attended Sunday school and mid-week service was even less. I also went door knocking and would run across Methodist, Lutherans, Baptists and Catholics that weren’t familiar with Scripture.

Your point is mute…fact is I’m attending a parish now that has a great Bible study held twice a week, once in the morning and in the evening, in addition to my RCIA class. So I’m getting plenty of exposure of Scripture.

One can’t twist a Protestant or Catholics arm to attend Bible studies, all you can do is offer the studies and encourage people to develop their faith.

Our parish Bible study has upwards of 42 people who attend…that’s a good size class with the summer coming on class, but still more should attend.
-

 

[Eliyahu]

DHK, you know good and well that you can find people across the Protestant broad spectrum that doesn’t know much about the Bible. Even in my home IFB Church, out of 400 members, only 150+ attended Sunday school and mid-week service was even less. I also went door knocking and would run across Methodist, Lutherans, Baptists and Catholics that weren’t familiar with Scripture.

Your point is mute…fact is I’m attending a parish now that has a great Bible study held twice a week, once in the morning and in the evening, in addition to my RCIA class. So I’m getting plenty of exposure of Scripture.

One can’t twist a Protestant or Catholics arm to attend Bible studies, all you can do is offer the studies and encourage people to develop their faith.

Our parish Bible study has upwards of 42 people who attend…that’s a good size class with the summer coming on class, but still more should attend.
-

Have you ever read thru the whole Bible for yourself, not from the sermon at the church ?
I ask you this third time.

 

[DHK]

DHK, you know good and well that you can find people across the Protestant broad spectrum that doesn’t know much about the Bible. Even in my home IFB Church, out of 400 members, only 150+ attended Sunday school and mid-week service was even less. I also went door knocking and would run across Methodist, Lutherans, Baptists and Catholics that weren’t familiar with Scripture.

Here's what I know.
1. You had a bad experience with a Baptist church.
2. My church is not a protestant church, but a baptist church, and one that is independent and fundamental.
3. To be a member one has to be saved and baptized. Those two prerequisites alone require some Bible knowledge that most Catholics I have met never have.
4. It is true that our SS attendance is less than our morning service. That is typical. It is typical because in the morning service we often have visitors that aren't members. Visitors don't often know the Bible as well as members--a bad guage to measure up the knowledge of the members of the church.
5. We preach through the Bible from Genesis to Revelation in using an expository method. For example I preached through the Book of 1Corinthians recently. If I put my notes together, I have a commentary of over 400 pages. Does that give you some idea of how much Scripture is imparted to the congregation?
6. Not only have I read through the Bible many times, I have taught on a Bible college level, every book of the Bible. How about you?

 

[Eliyahu]

What does this Bible teach us?

Ecclesiastes 9:
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

Have you ever read thru the whole Bible for yourself, not from the sermon at the church ?
I ask you this third time.

Sorry, i didn't realize you ask 3 times...

I really don’t know what this question has to do with anything, but have I read through the Bible on my own, excluding Bible studies? Not 100%, b/c I did skim through some of the boring genealogy parts, so I have to be honest…

But I’ve taken 3 years of Disciple Classes at a UMC, we met once a week for 3 hours, this format followed a typical school year. Which btw, transferred as College Credit at Indiana Wesleyan University (IWU) here in Indianapolis, where I also took Biblical Classes on a college level. The first year of Disciple 1, we studied and read 90% of the Bible (an introduction). Disciple 2, we studied in-depth Genesis, Exodus, Luke and Acts. Disciple 3 we studied in-depth, the Old Testament Prophets and the Epistles of Paul. My wife and I didn’t take Disciple 4, due to a new addition to our family.

I took these Disciple Classes, b/c I needed a more in-depth study. The Sunday school format at my IFB Church wasn’t what I was looking for. I didn’t feel like my walk was maturing, as I wanted. My IFB Church didn’t believe in any ‘round-table discussion’, it was more of a preaching setting…basically you were told what to think and never encouraged how to think. You could ask questions, and boy, did I ever, but normally they were frowned upon, due to time constraints…you know Choir practice has to start on time… and there were NO after hours Bible studies. So I basically had to make appointments with the Pastors just to ask questions that I had while studying on my own. I was told by our Pastor that they feed their sheep, food fitting for a sheep, meaning that you want to just teach them what they need to know, nothing meaty, if that’s what you want, then you go to Bible School.

What I’ve learned is that Evangelical Churches are great at introducing one to Christ, but severely lack in developing ones walk. I’ve seen people get saved and a month later drop out, because they simply didn’t know where to go from the point of getting saved…it was all about numbers to my IFB Church anyway.

So within these past 4 years both my wife and I feel that our Christian walk and our relationship together have grown. We home school our oldest, the others are not school age, and we have daily devotions and we teach Bible to our oldest.

Personally I feel I missed my calling. I wished I was a Theologian and once the kids get out diapers (I have two in diapers) and I can afford to go back to school, that’s what I plan on taking.

God has and is blessing my family and I and I believe through much prayer that my journey to the Catholic Church is one that God is leading me to.
-

 

[Eliyahu]

Agnus,

Thank you very much for your testimony. Interesting to hear about your experience with Wesleyan, because I know several people at Wesleyan HQ in Indianapolis while I was attending a Wesleyan church. They were good people in Christ. I trust your testimony on Bible study. It seems that your IFB church wasn't a good church for you to learn the truth from.
Anyway, it was a good help to understand you. Thanks.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

Agnus,
Thank you very much for your testimony. Interesting to hear about your experience with Wesleyan, because I know several people at Wesleyan HQ in Indianapolis while I was attending a Wesleyan church. They were good people in Christ. I trust your testimony on Bible study. It seems that your IFB church wasn't a good church for you to learn the truth from.
Anyway, it was a good help to understand you. Thanks.

You're welcome, I really enjoy and still do studying John Wesley. he has some pretty good sermons.

Like you Eliyahu, I take my walk with the Lord very serious and this is why I've been studying as objectively as I can for almost 4 years Early Church History along with Greek Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism. I defiantly don't want to rush into anything. I've just within the past month started a RCIA inquiry class at a local Parish a month ago and even when the whole process is complete next Spring, I'm still under no obligation to reconcile with the Catholic Church.

I do enjoy discussing these topics with you and the others here.
-

 

[BobRyan]

What does this Bible teach us?

Ecclesiastes 9:
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

According to TP we are not supposed to agree to that text of scripture.:tonofbricks:

 

[BobRyan]

I took these Disciple Classes, b/c I needed a more in-depth study. The Sunday school format at my IFB Church wasn’t what I was looking for. I didn’t feel like my walk was maturing, as I wanted. My IFB Church didn’t believe in any ‘round-table discussion’, it was more of a preaching setting…basically you were told what to think and never encouraged how to think. You could ask questions, and boy, did I ever, but normally they were frowned upon, due to time constraints…you know Choir practice has to start on time… and there were NO after hours Bible studies. So I basically had to make appointments with the Pastors just to ask questions that I had while studying on my own. I was told by our Pastor that they feed their sheep, food fitting for a sheep, meaning that you want to just teach them what they need to know, nothing meaty, if that’s what you want, then you go to Bible School.

What I’ve learned is that Evangelical Churches are great at introducing one to Christ, but severely lack in developing ones walk. I’ve seen people get saved and a month later drop out, because they simply didn’t know where to go from the point of getting saved…it was all about numbers to my IFB Church anyway.

I am not Baptist but I have visited a number of Baptist churches and I know that you can find a wide variety of Sunday School formats even within the same congregation. I go to the classes that encourage questions.

I would also agree that you can find a great number of people in various churches that are not well grounded and that do not have a lot of interest in studying the Bible.

So within these past 4 years both my wife and I feel that our Christian walk and our relationship together have grown. We home school our oldest, the others are not school age, and we have daily devotions and we teach Bible to our oldest.

Personally I feel I missed my calling. I wished I was a Theologian and once the kids get out diapers (I have two in diapers) and I can afford to go back to school, that’s what I plan on taking.

We home schooled our two children through high school. Like you - we engaged in daily family worship activities with our girls.

Then they both got engineering scholarships at a well known engineering school.

God has and is blessing my family and I and I believe through much prayer that my journey to the Catholic Church is one that God is leading me to.
-

That is what I find surprising -

I would never characterize the RCC as a more Bible-centered church than Baptists (and I am neither one).

In fact EVERY time I go to RC discussion boards to discuss they Bible they ALWAYS resort to slamming the Bible as something that is less than (or "at best" equal to) their own pet church traditions. In "practice" it seems to ALWAYs end up being "less than".

So given the flaws I will admit to finding in some Baptist churches I still find it very surprising that anyone could possibly compare the RCC to Baptists and conclude that the RCC is more focused on the Bible than Baptists.

EVEN on THIS VERY BOARD RC posters have been seen to slam the Bible when it comes to comparing Bible to tradition. Their sneering at "sola scriptura" arguments is well documented on THIS board -- not merely RC sponsored discussion boards.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Eliyahu]

You're welcome, I really enjoy and still do studying John Wesley. he has some pretty good sermons.

Like you Eliyahu, I take my walk with the Lord very serious and this is why I've been studying as objectively as I can for almost 4 years Early Church History along with Greek Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism. I defiantly don't want to rush into anything. I've just within the past month started a RCIA inquiry class at a local Parish a month ago and even when the whole process is complete next Spring, I'm still under no obligation to reconcile with the Catholic Church.

I do enjoy discussing these topics with you and the others here.
-

I liked Wesleyan teachings on Sanctification very much. Their historical background justifies themselves better than Methodists since they were split around 1843 due to the dispute over slavery system.
As for the historical evaluation I am sure you would disagree with me, but we can hardly verify who is correct. However, if we judge and discern the things based on the Bible scriptures, we can easily find many errors made by the infallible papacy.
When you read the Bible, I would recommend you to read seriously and wholeheartedly, the whole part thororughly from Genesis to Revelation, without any assistance from any human beings which may often brain wash you with human ideas.
That's why I don't like the commentaries by any so-called great people.

From my experience, I have read the whole Bible once a year during the past 33 years, including many times New Teatment in Greek and once in German, but I have not finished OT in Hebrew yet though I find the great interest in reading Heberew Bible. I try to avoid any human pollution, and therefore the choice of Lexicon or Hebrew Dictionary is very much important. Sometimes I try to figure out the lost meaning of the words behind the dictionary explanations.

Once I read the Bible in different languages, the first reading takes a full year, thereafter when I read it second time, the same book, then it takes only 6-8 months, then next time it takes only 3 months. New Testament takes less than 1 week. So, I am not surprised to hear that some people like Dr Cassidy on this board say he read Bible more than 200 times including Greek readings.
The most important thing in reading Bible is to get convicted.
When I read the Bible, it convicts me of my stupidness, lustfulness, stinginess in helping others and donation, problems with anger management, negligence in honoring my parents, arguments with church fellows, and many other things.
So, I agree that the Bible reading leads the people to the salvation in Jesus Christ, reproof, correction, instruction in righteousness ( as in 2 Timothy 3:15-6). How much we are convicted of our sins by reading the Bible, is the key to evaluate how well and faithfully we read the Bible, I believe.

I believe that if you have read the Bible seriously, you would have been convicted of the Idolatry seriously. This is why I emphasize that you better read the Bible for yourself without any interruption by anyone else than the Holy Spirit. I suggest that you surrender your own eisegisis to the Bible itself as much as possible. Bible is the living Words of God and it teaches you.

If starting from OT is difficult, you can start from NT first. I believe that God is the Words, and the Bible is the Words of God, and the ignorance of the Bible means the ignorance of God. Therefore reading the Bible wholeheartedly without interruption by anyone, by any commentary, else than the Holy Spirit is very important. God is alive nearby us and is eager to help us when we read His Words. When we have the question on the Bible, we kneel down and pray God to help us with His wisdom. When we find ourselves disagreeing with the Bible teachings, we must surrender ourselves to the Lord instead of complaining God because the problem is ourselves, not the merciful God. I think this is the right attitude and God is searching for the humble, broken hearted souls.
Hope you find the mercy and help from God in your spiritual journey.

 

[DHK]

What I’ve learned is that Evangelical Churches are great at introducing one to Christ, but severely lack in developing ones walk. I’ve seen people get saved and a month later drop out, because they simply didn’t know where to go from the point of getting saved…it was all about numbers to my IFB Church anyway.

Don't judge all IFB (or even all evangelical churches) by the one bad apple that you attended. There are some great churches out there with wonderful discipleship programs. Just because you attended one that didn't have a good discipleship program, doesn't mean they are all like that.

So within these past 4 years both my wife and I feel that our Christian walk and our relationship together have grown. We home school our oldest, the others are not school age, and we have daily devotions and we teach Bible to our oldest.

That sounds promising. But it is not the general philosophy that comes from the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church advocates its own schools. We home schooled our children. Out of four children I still have one left. I am home-schooling her, and she will be entering into grade eleven in the fall. In Canada the Catholic and Public Schools are the only two school systems that are fully funded by the government. Both are as if they are public schools. The only difference is that the Catholic school has a little bit of religion class added on to it. Its morals, dress code, and everything else about it is the same as the public schools. One couldn't tell the difference, except for the name.

Personally I feel I missed my calling. I wished I was a Theologian and once the kids get out diapers (I have two in diapers) and I can afford to go back to school, that’s what I plan on taking.

God has and is blessing my family and I and I believe through much prayer that my journey to the Catholic Church is one that God is leading me to.

Honestly, a quest to the Catholic church ends up in paganism farther and farther away from the truth, not closer to God, and not closer to the Word of God. I went to the Catholic Church for twenty years and never heard the gospel message once. They don't preach it.
Please don't tell me that I didn't have a good church. My father was in an occupation that caused us to travel a lot (move from place to place). We lived in Alberta, Manitoba, Quebec, Germany, Italy, England, Spain. and attended churches in all those places. Can they all be wrong. Dozens and dozens of churches--and never heard the gospel once. And yes, I did pay attention. The Catholic Church does not promote the study of God's Word; it never did. Not until I reached the age of twenty did I ever hear the gospel presented to me, and that was by a couple of college students on the campus of a university. They knew more about the Bible than a Catholic priest did. They explained what the gospel was, and that day I got saved, in other words, I was born again by the Spirit of God.
That is a concept that Catholics don't understand. Do you understand it? What does it mean to be born again? Are you born again? Jesus said "Unless a man is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God?" What do you beleive it means to be born again?

 

[Zenas]

So given the flaws I will admit to finding in some Baptist churches I still find it very surprising that anyone could possibly compare the RCC to Baptists and conclude that the RCC is more focused on the Bible than Baptists.[/

QUOTE]

Section 133 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church states: The Church "forcefully and specifically exhorts all the Christian faithful . . . to learn ‘the surpassing knowledge of Jesus Christ,' by frequent reading of the divine Scriptures. ‘Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.'"

Nevertheless, I also find it strange that someone would find the RCC more focused on the Bible than Baptists. In my experience their official doctrine is more Bible centered than their membership.

 

[BobRyan]

#1. I think it is wonderful surprising that you would actually find in a well known bible-burning church - a formal statement that encourages Bible study. One might even be tempted to wonder how far back into the Bible-burning dark ages days that pro-Bible statment can be found in the RCC canon law.

But it is NOT "wonderfully surprising" to find those pro-Bible statments in "sola-scriptura" groups!! In fact it is "expected"..

So good for the RCC in coming out with a pro-Bible statement.

#2. That still does not explain "the story" Agnus tells about an IFB family "wanting MORE Bible study in church" and so they turn to the one OTHER group so well known by IFB members for being "Bible based and rock solid on Bible doctrine" -- the RCC!:laugh:

You need to really "work" at making that story sound believable.:sleep: :smilewinkgrin:

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

If someone "tells a story" of the form "I grew up Catholic so I was very used to hearing about how tradition-trumps-scripture and diatribes against the sola-scriptura churches. Then I became IFB thinking I finally found Christianity. but then in later years I longed for the ornate services and formality of my youth so I went back to the RCC.. Home again!!"

One might also expect to hear a story of the form "I was raised IFB - but did not like the stiffled bible-study limits on questions there so I tried a few other IFB congregations and then some SBC groups. Still not finding the loose free Question-and-answer format that was always digging deeper into Bible truths - I started attending a local community church with outstanding Bible teachers..." etc etc.

Either of those scenarios could be "reasonably proposed" and almost anyone would believe them RC or Baptist or even SDA.

But the story that is of the form "All IFB members are told that the RCC is a place of rock solid Bible doctrine and if you ever get tired of the shallow end of the pool in the IFB sunday School - IFB members know that the next step up in rock solid sola-scriptura Bible study is attending RCC Mass!" - does not sell itself. It is like saying "I was an IFB member then one day I imaged that the easter bunny landed on my head and said -- "Be Catholic" so now that is what I am"... The story just does not hold up to the simple test of reason. There is something missing.

Also it is hard to even IMAGINE an IFB member saying "I like my church but they are not killing enough heretics, they don't burn enough bibles, they don't pray to the dead the way I really wish they did, they don't make stuff up enough -- like purgatory and indulgences, they are not declaring themselves to be infallible the way I really think they should...they don't give pastors magic-powers to create God like I think they should... they have not abandoned sola-scriptura the way I always thought we should do it..and why don't I see more images to help my in my prayers to the dead the way the pagans do it? -- so what chuch can I find that would provide this hungering of my soul in these areas??? hmmm let me think...."

Basically - you NEVER think that IFB members EVER wander off into that fairytale land where the distinctives in both doctrine and history of the RCC are "longed for" by the IFB members.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Eliyahu]

As far as Bible reading is concerned, Catholics can talk with Truly Born-again Christians only on the internet or by media, not by face to face discussion.
They can bring the ready-made sites from the hireling professional priests etc.

The main reason for this situation is that one can hardly read the Bible with the great interest unless she or he is born-again in the Lord.

Before I was born again, I made up the mind to read the Bible many times, but I postponed it again and again then failed. After I was born again, I found a fountain of strong desire in me to read the Bible all the time. One may argue that Jehovah's Witness read the Bible quite a lot. JW may look an exceptional case, but their interpretation is quite "mechanical". Actually they don't read the Bible very much and don't try to apply to their lives.

I don't think all the IFB's are the same as I experience the problems with some of the so-called Plymouth Brethen as well. It's an individual matter, and an individual church matter.

Catholics are definitely Ritual oriented, not Bible study oriented. The importance is to get ourselves convicted of our sins by reading the Bible. From my experience, I have never seen such Catholic church or friends preaching the Gospel that way.

 

[BobRyan]

JW's that are out there visiting in homes and studying with people -- usually know their Bible much better than the average Christian in almost any church.

I have debated them and with other Christians -- and by comparison the JW's tend to have a lot more Bible responses -- you have to work harder to get them to the "ran-out-of-road" empty answer cycle that is so easily obtained when someone has lost the Bible basis for an argument. Take this topic for example -- claiming that Christ was "praying to the dead" when He commanded Lazarus to be resurrected is a classic example of "running out of answers". All you have to do is compare the "prayer to St Jude" to a COMMAND from God for the dead to be raised!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Eliyahu]

That sounds promising. But it is not the general philosophy that comes from the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church advocates its own schools. We home schooled our children. Out of four children I still have one left. I am home-schooling her, and she will be entering into grade eleven in the fall. In Canada the Catholic and Public Schools are the only two school systems that are fully funded by the government. Both are as if they are public schools. The only difference is that the Catholic school has a little bit of religion class added on to it. Its morals, dress code, and everything else about it is the same as the public schools. One couldn't tell the difference, except for the name.

In Canada, the taxes paid by Protestant Christians and Jews are subsidizing Roman Catholic Schools. Jewish congregation appealed this matter to the court, but was rejected, then went to UN. UN gave the resolution to Canadian government that they should provide the equal opportunity to all religions in Canada while Cretian was the PM. But they refused it so far. I realized that it is the policy of RCC to make such agreement with the governments of many countries. They still maintain the Concordat made with Hitler's Third Reich, even today with German government.
I wonder why RCC try to maintain their Holy Catholic schools by the money from Heretic Protestants and Jews as it looks like a robbery. Behind this, there are Catholic politicians like Dalton McGuinty, Cretian, Paul Martin etc.

In Ontario, there is the only Public Protestant Christian school in St Catharines fully funded by Public school board, named Eden High school since Menonites surrendered it to the government due to the financial difficulties. My daughter graduated from there.

However, I trust that God provides the way to preach His words in many ways though RCC occupies many institutes, and RCC will not succeed in eliminating the True Christian believers education.