Ted Haggard in Trouble

Then why did he step down?

Sounds like he got bad advice . . . or there is a problem.

And neither of those options is good.

 

I really, really hope this is a smear campaign and that he is innocent of all charges.

If not...hooboy, things'll get messy in Colorado...politically, and for churches' reputations...

Hopefully this will be resolved very quickly.

 

I pray that he is innocent.

If he is guilty . . . We can only pray that he is truly saved.

Nightline is reporting that he has stepped aside voluntary as is normal for a pastor accused of moral sin.

 

I hope that is all it is...
The timing does seem a little suspicious, just a few days before the vote...

Sounds like something the gay agenda would try to pull

 

The prostitute admitted that on the telephone interview on nightline.

He also did not say that the pastor was his client - rather he claimed that he looked like his client.

Sounded like he was getting ready for a lawsuit.

 

Maybe the query will go unanswered.









(I award myself the "bad pun of the day award. Thank you. Thank you all." :tongue3:

 

I would also for any accused of any immorality, even while recognizing that even an accusation of the same is a real problem for the one accused, whether innocent or not, as this is something that seems to cling like Velcro, thereafter, no matter what is shown.

How do we make this leap, so blithely?? And BTW, for the umpteenth time I've asked this- Where does Scripture ever speak of "truly saved"? Why do so many seem to have an innate need to add something to Scripture's words? Didn't the Holy Spirit do a good enough job, speaking through men "borne along", to get what He wanted said?

Personally, I believe that He did. And further, as I've before said, "truly saved" is little more than a 'code word' for the theology of 'Lordship salvation'. Why would one who does not believe in Lordship salvation play into the hand of that idea?

Ed

 

I'll give you 'three cheers' on this one, since you've so well earned them -

"Fooey!" "Fooey!" "Fooey!"

Ed

P.S. FTR, I'm not sure I had any clue as to whom Ted Haggard is before today, although I've heard the name.

 

There are surely plenty of things we believe in as being scriptural, even though the actual words we use for those things do not appear in our English bible translations. We would search in vain for words and phrases like "The Ten Commandments", "The Virgin Birth", "The Trinity", "church membership", "missionary work", and "outreach", but the meanings behind those phrases and words are in the bible, so we believe them.

The same with the phrase "truly saved". Are all apparent conversions genuine? Of course not! That's partly why we have so many warnings in scripture about false teachers. In 2 Corinthians 11.13-14 we read:

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

Those of whom Paul writes were not genuine Christians, and that is surely the same thing as saying that they were not truly saved.

Every blessing,

 

The Haggard matter is being discussed at News/Current Events:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=34839

 

I have no clue who this guy is but it does seem queer that this would suddenly pop up just a few days BEFORE the election and so close on the heels of Kerry's idiocy.

 

"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events and small minds discuss people.”… Unknown.

 

Don't look good for Haggard today. He admitted buying meth from a escort.

 

Pun intended, I'm sure!

Uh- are these verses still applicable, at least where the church is concerned??

Since this is in my Bible, I'm just wonderin'!

Plus don't we have something in the legal system of the US that presumes innocence? Or did I get that one wrong, as well?

Ed

 

David, there is a world of difference between "false teachers" (to whom, BTW, the phrase about "By their fruits you shall know them" is addressed), and "truly saved", "truly believe" or what not.

The Bible tells us to "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved"; John 3:16-18 tells of "believe" and/or "believe not" (or disbelieve), with the resultant "condemned not", and/or "condemned already", as the only two categories in that passage.

Faith, i.e. believe, is that and that alone, there is no such phrase as "genuine faith" in Scripture, to my knowledge. Let Scripture speak for itself. It has done a marvelous job of that for around 3500 years. It's the 'helping out the Holy Spirit" by tradition that has given the problem over the years.

Seems clear enough to me! How about any of the rest of you? For these, at least, the sole issue was "believe" 'on the Lord Jesus Christ', the same as in Acts 16:30-32.

Ed

 

Thanks for your thought-provoking reply, Ed.

I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say (my fault, I'm sure - I try to be clear in what I write, but so often I fail. Sorry!)

I was not saying that there is some kind of "half-way house" between "saved" and "unsaved". I meant that there are unsaved people who either think they are Christians but are not, or who deliberately pose as Christians when they are not.

I can speak from personal experience as having been one who thought he was a Christian, but was not. As a child and teenager, I thought I was a Christian. After all, I had been christened as a baby, I went to church, sang in the choir, I was confirmed, I said prayers . . . but no one had ever told me that I needed to be saved, or that slvation was to be found fully and only in the Lord Jesus Christ. (This was all in what is called a "high Anglican" church, that is, Anglican with Roman Catholic tendencies. We sang a hymn which actually started, "I was made a Christian when my name was given", in other words, at my christening!) But praise God! He didn't leave me in that sorry state. Through a friend at school, God caused me to hear what it really meant to be a Christian, and I realised that I was not one at that time.

Down through the ages there have been people who have deliberately pretended to be Christians, for various reasons. Perhaps to put oneself in a good light with a Christian girlfriend or boyfriend, to please Christian parents, or for social or other reasons.

Either we have to believe that everyone who says he or she is a Christian really is one, or we must accept that there are some unbelievers who are just acting the part of a believer - they are not genuinely Christians.

There is a phrase such as "genuine faith" in scripture. (I say "such as" because it is not those exact words, but the meaning is there). Paul writes to Timothy in 2 Timothy 1.5:

when I call to remembrance the genuine faith that is in you, which dwelt first in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice, and I am persuaded is in you also.

That's from the New King James Version. The Authourised (King James) Version has "unfeigned faith", but the meaning is the same.

With warm Christian greetings,

 

At this moment we are in the last days of a political campaign. There some godly people running for office.

Their appoints are feverously using all means and avenues to destroy those who stand publicly for good.

The appoints of Good will take an association, a real event and twist it, and by the time the real truth is found out it is over.

One organization files a lawsuit against a business, a bogus lawsuit intended only to be used for political purposes. The charge was bogus, and the judge through it out.

The politician knowingly uses this lawsuit to blast his appoint. He tells the truth about the law suit, but does not tell all the truth.

Here a half truth is used to skew the truth.

Everyone knows the jest here.

If every one of us put ourselves in the public eye - and champion a good cause - how many of us would be standing at the end of the day. We all have something in our lives we are not proud of, that God has forgiven us of. Even as Christians many of us have not always been the model believer.

What did Jesus say to the men that brought the woman caught in adultery say? He that has not sin cast the first stone.

Regards

 

Haggard addmitted to buying drugs from the man in the article. Someone like that is not fit to lead a group of people.

It is time that Christians realize who God is and make sure because their sin will find them out.

 

Thats why it is necessary to follow God and not man.