Ten Commandments Pre cross - Questions

[Brother Bob]

It has been shown that we aren't perfect.
So, what kind of unconfessed sin would God accept if you were to die of a sudden heart attack? an unconfessed lie? an unconfessed thought that was not pure in motive? Would those sins keep you out of heaven if not confessed?__________________

The God I believe in said He would deliver His children blameless. I don't serve a God like you describe.

Sure glad to be teaching men and women not to sin against God instead of telling them it doesn't matter.


If you have 2 preachers. One is preaching to the people to "cease from sin and repent and be born again and live for Jesus, cease from sin and learn to do good, have your heart changed from a stoney heart thats loves darkness unto a fleshly heart that loves the ways of the Lord, and they can live in a City called Heaven by the blood of God's only begotten Son who died for the sin of the World. For the steps of a good man are ordered of the Lord and He will lead you in the light and not in darkness anymore.

Another one is preachs to the people to "accept Christ in your life and you can continue to commit adultery, kill, steal, lie lay out in the bars, desert your families, play the harlot" for it will all be covered by the blood of Christ. Come on folks you don't have to quit nothing just be born again and then your sins will be ok and you can keep that adultereous you have living with you. Sadly that is what is being taught in this world and they both will fall in the ditch.

Which one would you believe was preaching how to be a Christian.

 

[rbell]

Sure glad to be teaching men and women not to sin against God instead of telling them it doesn't matter.

Bob...why can you not understand that sin is not being condoned? There is no one here encouraging folks to go sin!

If you wouldn't put words in folks' mouths, this could be an excellent discussion!

 

[Linda64]

IS THE BELIEVER UNDER OBLIGATION
TO KEEP CHRIST’S COMMANDS?
​

"And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1 John 2:3-4). "If ye love Me, keep My commandments" (John 14:15). Yes, commandment keeping is essential!

The believer living under grace whose focus is on Mount Calvary must keep God’s commands. Obedience to the Word of God is essential in each and every dispensation. The key question is this: What commands are we to obey? What commandments has Christ given to believers living in this present dispensation of grace? Here are some examples:

• "And now, little children, ABIDE IN HIM; that, when He shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at his coming" (1 John 2:28).
• "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but BE FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT" (Ephesians 5:18).
• "This I say then, WALK IN THE SPIRIT, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh" (Galatians 5:16).
• "Likewise RECKON YE ALSO YOURSELVES TO BE DEAD INDEED UNTO SIN, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:11).
• "Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but YIELD YOURSELVES UNTO GOD, AS THOSE THAT ARE ALIVE FROM THE DEAD, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God" (Rom. 6:13).
• "As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, SO WALK YE IN HIM" (Col. 2:6).
• "I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye WALK WORTHY of the vocation [the believer’s high, heavenly, holy CALLING] wherewith ye are called" (Eph. 4:1).
• "And that ye PUT ON THE NEW MAN, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness" (Eph. 4:24).
• "For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: WALK AS CHILDREN OF LIGHT" (Eph. 5:8).
• "If ye then be risen with Christ, SEEK THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE ABOVE, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God" (Col. 3:1).
• "PUT ON therefore, AS THE ELECT OF GOD, HOLY AND BELOVED, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering" (Col. 3:12).
• "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and LET US RUN WITH PATIENCE THE RACE that is set before us, LOOKING UNTO JESUS the Author and Finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God" (Heb. 12:1-2).

As believers living under grace we need to have our minds baptized and immersed in the EPISTLES, becoming more and more familiar with the great GRACE-ORIENTED COMMANDS that are found therein. Yes we are certainly to obey God’s commands, but the commands which God has given to us are based upon the believer’s glorious position in a crucified and risen Christ. These commands do not flow out of Mount Sinai, they flow out of Mount Calvary.

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/doctrine/rulelife.htm

 

[Brother Bob]

Condoned and encouraging is two different word and I do believe it is being condoned. The message is you lose nothing by sinning. What have you said you lose by sinning? I think that is condoning because of the message you are sending to people. "you don't lose by adultery in the Lord". That is the message.

It is so obvious you look over all the accusations made at me, including you but settle down on me because I do not believe you can die in the act of adultery and go to Heaven. Jesus said, "go and sin no more". You either stand for the Lord or you stand for sin.

RECKON YE ALSO YOURSELVES TO BE DEAD INDEED UNTO SIN

Sin is Transgession of the Law (Commandments).

Yes we are certainly to obey God’s commands, but the commands which God has given to us are based upon the believer’s glorious position in a crucified and risen Christ. These commands do not flow out of Mount Sinai, they flow out of Mount Calvary.

And Jesus said: "thou knowest the commandments" and began to quote the Ten.

I don't disagree with you Linda but think there are some things that need to be explained more and that is what flowed from Mt. Calvary. Paul said, I would not even known sin except the Commandments say, thou shalt not commit adultery etc.

 

[Linda64]

Condoned and encouraging is two different word and I do believe it is being condoned. The message is you lose nothing by sinning. What have you said you lose by sinning? I think that is condoning because of the message you are sending to people. "you don't lose by adultery in the Lord". That is the message.

It is so obvious you look over all the accusations made at me, including you but settle down on me because I do not believe you can die in the act of adultery and go to Heaven. Jesus said, "go and sin no more". You either stand for the Lord or you stand for sin.



Sin is Transgession of the Law (Commandments).


And Jesus said: "thou knowest the commandments" and began to quote the Ten.

I don't disagree with you Linda but think there are some things that need to be explained more and that is what flowed from Mt. Calvary. Paul said, I would not even known sin except the Commandments say, thou shalt not commit adultery etc.

That was only a portion of an article called: What Is The Believer's Rule of Life? You probably need to read the entire article. I simply thought that the basic theme of "keeping the commandments" and the reason we are to do this was good.

 

[rbell]

Condoned and encouraging is two different word and I do believe it is being condoned. The message is you lose nothing by sinning. What have you said you lose by sinning? I think that is condoning because of the message you are sending to people. "you don't lose by adultery in the Lord". That is the message.

I agree wholeheartedly that Christians are expected to keep God's commands...Jesus even taught to go "beyond the minimum" in the Sermon on the Mount.

But...You say above you "lose nothing by sinning." (your summarization of our "words.")

I don't believe that at all...you lose a great deal!

Example: If I went out today and spread awful rumors about my father, I would still be his son...but I would lose a great relationship.

We sin...we lose fellowship with God. There's more to Christianity than Heaven. People who accept Christ...giving their all to Him...but much later in life they backslide, and die without returning to their "first love" still go to heaven. But they lost a great deal...they lost years of sweet fellowship with a Holy God...and they are saved "as if by fire."

Now please, please refrain from saying or implying that I think adultery is fine with God.

 

[rbell]

1 Timothy 1:15--

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."

Please note that Paul did NOT use the past tense, but the present. Even late in his ministry, he understood that he still stumbled and fell, but he was continuing to grow in God's grace and knowledge. But he hadn't arrived...and neither have any of us.

 

[DHK]

The God I believe in said He would deliver His children blameless. I don't serve a God like you describe.

Another one is preachs to the people to "accept Christ in your life and you can continue to commit adultery, kill, steal, lie lay out in the bars, desert your families, play the harlot" for it will all be covered by the blood of Christ. Come on folks you don't have to quit nothing just be born again and then your sins will be ok and you can keep that adultereous you have living with you. Sadly that is what is being taught in this world and they both will fall in the ditch.

Are you insinuating that this is the way that I believe? Then that is slander. Never have I suggested any such thing. In fact if you look at thread realistically Bob, I take a harder stand against sin then you do.
I treat lying just as bad and evil a sin as adultery is. God will send a person to hell for a little white lie. In God's eyes a little white lie is just as bad as adultery. It is abhorrent in his sight. It is an abomination. He hates lying. It is just as bad as adultery and murder.
You don't take that view of sin. You put lying in another class of sin like the Catholics do. It is a lesser sin, which, if unconfessed as the time of death wouldn't make a difference in your salvation. But if one was committing adultery at the time of their death (according to your theology) they would be prohibited from entering into heaven. Thus you say one sin is worse than another. God doesn't see it that way. In that way, Bob, you condone lying. You are saying that it is ok to lie, just don't commit adultery. One sin is condoned and the other condemned. That is hypocrisy.

Sin is sin; and God hates all sin whether it by lying or adultery. All or any sin can send a person to hell.
But here is something else that your theology does not permit you to believe. Let me put it in the words of a famous hymn writer.

Wonderful grace of Jesus,
Greater than all my sin;
How shall my tongue describe it,
Where shall its praise begin?
Taking away my burden,
Setting my spirit free;
For the wonderful grace of Jesus reaches me.


Refrain
Wonderful the matchless grace of Jesus,
Deeper than the mighty rolling sea;
Wonderful grace, all sufficient for me, for even me.
Broader than the scope of my transgressions,
Greater far than all my sin and shame,
O magnify the precious Name of Jesus.
Praise His Name!

Bob, you don't believe that the grace of God is greater than all your sin, as this hymn by Hal*dor Lil*le*nas, so apty describes. I believe that God's grace is sufficient to forgiven all my sins, including adultery, but you do not. For some reason you don't believe that the grace of God is not sufficient, not great enough to cover "all my sin and shame," as Lillenas put it. Yet that is what the Bible teaches. No matter what the sin is (unconfessed or not), God is able to forgive it, yet you do not believe it. That is a slap in God's face telling him that his blood is not sufficient to cover your sins, and consequently ends up in you believing in a works salvation.

 

[Brother Bob]

Are you insinuating that this is the way that I believe? Then that is slander. Never have I suggested any such thing. In fact if you look at thread realistically Bob, I take a harder stand against sin then you do.
I treat lying just as bad and evil a sin as adultery is. God will send a person to hell for a little white lie. In God's eyes a little white lie is just as bad as adultery. It is abhorrent in his sight. It is an abomination. He hates lying. It is just as bad as adultery and murder.
You don't take that view of sin. You put lying in another class of sin like the Catholics do. It is a lesser sin, which, if unconfessed as the time of death wouldn't make a difference in your salvation. But if one was committing adultery at the time of their death (according to your theology) they would be prohibited from entering into heaven. Thus you say one sin is worse than another. God doesn't see it that way. In that way, Bob, you condone lying. You are saying that it is ok to lie, just don't commit adultery. One sin is condoned and the other condemned. That is hypocrisy.

Sin is sin; and God hates all sin whether it by lying or adultery. All or any sin can send a person to hell.
But here is something else that your theology does not permit you to believe. Let me put it in the words of a famous hymn writer.

You say God hates these sins you listed above, but apparently after being saved, they don't count anymore for sin because according to your thology, they have ALREADY BEEN COVERED BY THE BLOOD, therefore already gone in to the sea of forgetfulness.

I must admit that you do believe this is sin for the unsaved but for the saved it is covered by the blood of Christ and according to you the saved can do all those sins you mentioned above and still go to Heaven.

The difference between you and me is that I don't believe they are Christians. I repented of my sins and said "get behind me Satan, I don't want to go your way anymore", then you tell me that I didn't get away from all that adultery and lying, stealing, killing, etc. You say the saved continue to do those things but its not sin for the saved or at least, it don't make them any different than the Christians that are living like Christians because they going to Heaven regardless of what they do. Confessed or unconfessed sins does not make a difference with Christians, they still going to Heaven, according to your belief. You want me to believe that? No Thanks.

Want to see some of your previous posts?

 

[Brother Bob]

That was only a portion of an article called: What Is The Believer's Rule of Life? You probably need to read the entire article. I simply thought that the basic theme of "keeping the commandments" and the reason we are to do this was good.__________________

Very Good, the words of a true Christian.

 

[Brother Bob]

rbell;

1 Timothy 1:15--

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."

Please note that Paul did NOT use the past tense, but the present. Even late in his ministry, he understood that he still stumbled and fell, but he was continuing to grow in God's grace and knowledge. But he hadn't arrived...and neither have any of us.
__________________

Paul felt his littleness alright and you fellows use that scripture for support to sin. Show me where Paul did any of the things we are talking about, adultery, murder, lying, stealing, worshiping an idol, etc. I will be waiting.

 

[DHK]

The difference between you and me is that I don't believe they are Christians. I repented of my sin

So what if you have repented of your sins? Where in the New Testament is "repentance of your sins" a requirement for salvation? Show me one verse where anyone is required to repent of their sins. I doubt if you have repented of your sins. In fact I believe that was a lie as you typed it on this board. You can't even remember all the sins you have ever committed much less repent of them all. Bob, that is an impossibility for any man to do. So perhaps you should repent of the lie you just told

Did Annanias and Sapphira repent of their sin of hypocrisy before God judged them with sudden death?
Did the believers in Corinth (1Cor.11:30) repent of their sin of abusing the Lord's table before God judged some of them with death?
Did the thief on the cross repent of his stealing before Jesus said "Today thou shalt be with me in paradise."
--No he did not. He simply called on the Lord, and that was all. No repentance was mentioned, at least not repentance from specific sins.
It is not repentance from sins that will get you to heaven. Jesus is the way to heaven. You need to believe on him.

 

[Brother Bob]

So what if you have repented of your sins? Where in the New Testament is "repentance of your sins" a requirement for salvation? Show me one verse where anyone is required to repent of their sins. I doubt if you have repented of your sins. In fact I believe that was a lie as you typed it on this board.

Not nice for moderators to be calling members liars.

2Cr 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh,
and put [him] to an open shame.

Hbr 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place
of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Maybe you haven’t repented DHK; There is no way I could know that for it is between you and God. As for me and my house,

we have repented of our sins and we serve the Lord.

I thank God with all my being that you are not the judge of mankind., amen

 

[DHK]

There is not one verse that you have posted Bob that says that one must "repent of their sins." I believe you may have a wrong concept of repentance.

 

[Brother Bob]

Act 3:19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Luk 24:47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem


I find it hard to believe that not one but two on here question that you have to repent of your sins.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Act 3:19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Luk 24:47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem


I find it hard to believe that not one but two on here question that you have to repent of your sins.

Quite obvious from these two verses that one cannot be saved without repentance from sins.

Jesus also said:

Luke 13:3, 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

 

[DHK]

Act 3:19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Luk 24:47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem


I find it hard to believe that not one but two on here question that you have to repent of your sins.

In Acts 3:19 the command to repent is given, but not to repent of your sins.
In Luke 24 repentance should be preached, but not repentance from your sins.

Nowhere in the New Testament does it say that one must repent of one's sins. Where does it say that? Where do you get that concept from? I do not find it in the Bible, especially concerning salvation.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Repent ye and be converted that your sins may be blotted out

Helloooooo....

If one wants their sins to be blotted out, they must repent of the sins and be converted from their sinful hearts to hearts that love the Lord and eschew evil.

 

[EdSutton]

Helloooooo....

If one wants their sins to be blotted out, they must repent of the sins and be converted from their sinful heats to hearts that love the Lord and eschew evil.

With all respect, the verse says one must "repent (metanoeO), and be converted (epistrephO) in order that your sins be blotted out", I agree for this is exactly what the verse says.

You are the one who added the "of your sins" bit to the first word, not Peter who spoke them, not Luke who recorded them, not the listeners who heard them, not the Holy Spirit who caused them to be recorded. Only you, in this post. And the verse under consideration says nothing about "from their sinful hearts to hearts that love the Lord and "eschew evil", a phrase ascribed only to Job, specifically (Job 1&2), and BTW long before Job, who is the only person in the OT ever said to have repented, actually 'repented' (Job 42). Peter did quote a Psalm to that effect, however the Psalm actually renders it as "Depart from evil" (Ps. 34:14 - KJV)

BTW, for everyone, not just StandingFirm, I'm still waiting to see what sins some of you claim that God repented of, as Scripture, not some of us posters, says God repented or did not repent over 30 times in the OT, alone.

Ed

 

[Shiloh]

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

I don't believe any one preaches "repentance" more than I do. However in Romans 10:9,10 and vs.13 we read how to be saved. Where do you find the term repentance there?

Notice: in Luke 15:18,19, Here we have repentance, I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven that's a strong conviction of sin, and before thee that's a Godly contrition of sin, And am no more worthy to be called thy son that's an honest confession of sin, make me as one of thy hired servants that's a permanent turning away from sin.
NOW Notice, Luk 15:20-22, And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven conviction, and in thy sight Godly contrition, and am no more worthy to be called thy son honest confession, But the father......NOTICE what the Father did here, put a robe on him, a ring on his finger and shoes on his feet. In other words the Father said to his son, you are not a servant but a son.

Did the father know his son? SURE HE DID. Did the Father think for one moment that his son would NEVER sin again? I DON"T THINK SO.

That's why IJohn 1:9 is in the Word of God.....If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

NOW, what happens to "Christians" who sin and fail to repent before they die? Do they go to hell......to say they do means 1. Your god must be real small and weak. or 2. You are depending upon "you" to take you to Heaven, or your "good works." Davis said "restore unto me the joy of "thy" salvation."

If a Christian doesn't go to hell if he/she dies without repenting of every sin they commit, what happens....... 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. That's why the old timers always talked of "keeping a short account." A Christian must live as Godly as possible in this world but you need to remember that we still have that old nature and are susceptible to sinning. To say you never sin once you were saved is to call God a liar. You might try to convince everybody that you don't sin but I bet if I talked to your neighbor they would say something different.