Ten Commandments Pre cross - Questions

[DHK]

Interesting, and where in the 10 commandments are these two:
Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and strength
and
Love thy nieghbor as thyself.

No one would deny that Jesus said or even taught those things. But is that why he came? Was that the purpose of his coming?
Did he come preaching the Ten Commandments Yes or No?

He came; not to be ministered unto but to minister and to give his live a ransom for many.
He came, to seek and to save that which was lost.
He came, preaching the gospel not the Ten Commandments.

Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Matthew 9:35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

Matthew 11:4-5 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Luke 8:1 And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were UNTIL John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Is this so difficult to see?

 

[Diggin in da Word]

In Matthew, Mark, and Luke Jesus showed how it was utmost importance to devote one's self to God, and tolove one's neighbor. The Ten Commandmennts were wrapped up in these two great commandments.

If one truly loves the Lord God, one will not want to break the first four commandments. which are toward God... vertical.

If one truly loves his neighbor, one will not want to break the last six commandments. which are toward man... horizontal.

These laws were never abolished as DHK and others would have us to believe.

John, throughout the first of his Epistles stressed the keeping of the Commandments time and again. If I am not mistaken, he was one of the disciples... the one called John the Beloved.

Paul, while not a disciple, was an Apostle of Christ. Paul clearly taught that the keeping of the commandments was of God.

 

[Allan]

No one would deny that Jesus said or even taught those things. But is that why he came? Was that the purpose of his coming?
Did he come preaching the Ten Commandments Yes or No?

He came; not to be ministered unto but to minister and to give his live a ransom for many.
He came, to seek and to save that which was lost.
He came, preaching the gospel not the Ten Commandments.

Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Matthew 9:35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

Matthew 11:4-5 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Luke 8:1 And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were UNTIL John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Is this so difficult to see?

That was kinda the point. No one can fulfill ANY of those laws without breaking them each and every day. This is why the Law CAN NOT justify ANYONE because NNE could live it BUT CHRIST. And He IS GOD. Perfection in flesh. The was given to REVEAL sin not prove our righteousness.

 

[rbell]

In Matthew, Mark, and Luke Jesus showed how it was utmost importance to devote one's self to God, and tolove one's neighbor. The Ten Commandmennts were wrapped up in these two great commandments.

If one truly loves the Lord God, one will not want to break the first four commandments. which are toward God... vertical.

If one truly loves his neighbor, one will not want to break the last six commandments. which are toward man... horizontal.

These laws were never abolished as DHK and others would have us to believe.

John, throughout the first of his Epistles stressed the keeping of the Commandments time and again. If I am not mistaken, he was one of the disciples... the one called John the Beloved.

Paul, while not a disciple, was an Apostle of Christ. Paul clearly taught that the keeping of the commandments was of God.

"Keeping the commandments is of God" does not mean that the breaking of a commandment means one is lost.

If one is a Christian, and breaks a commandment (sins)...their relationship with God is damaged, but their adoption is not negated.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

"Keeping the commandments is of God" does not mean that the breaking of a commandment means one is lost.

If one is a Christian, and breaks a commandment (sins)...their relationship with God is damaged, but their adoption is not negated.

Then you must believe that John was lying when he stated that one who did not keep the commandments did not even know Christ.

 

[rbell]

Then you must believe that John was lying when he stated that one who did not keep the commandments did not even know Christ.

yeah, you got me. I think he's putting us on. :BangHead:

First of all, is it even possible for you to avoid being rude in your posts? I offer a discussion, and you respond with this kind of rhetoric. It may not be your spiritual gift, but try discussing matters without being immature...it might grow on you.

Secondly, (addressing your actual post, sans rudeness in return) if you'll put 1 John 2:4 in context with 1 John 1:8-10, you'll have a more complete view of what John is teaching here. Claims of absolute obedience to God's law negates the need for Christ, and according to 1 John, is deceptive.

 

[Allan]

In Matthew, Mark, and Luke Jesus showed how it was utmost importance to devote one's self to God, and tolove one's neighbor. The Ten Commandmennts were wrapped up in these two great commandments.

If one truly loves the Lord God, one will not want to break the first four commandments. which are toward God... vertical.

If one truly loves his neighbor, one will not want to break the last six commandments. which are toward man... horizontal.

These laws were never abolished as DHK and others would have us to believe.

John, throughout the first of his Epistles stressed the keeping of the Commandments time and again. If I am not mistaken, he was one of the disciples... the one called John the Beloved.

Paul, while not a disciple, was an Apostle of Christ. Paul clearly taught that the keeping of the commandments was of God.

Nope!

When the Law was trying to be placed on the Gentiles:

Act 21:19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
Act 21:20 And when they heard [it], they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
Act 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs.
Act 21:22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
Act 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
Act 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave [their] heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but [that] thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
Act 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written [and] concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from [things] offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

Paul NEVER once gave any DIRECTION for NON-JEWS (saved Gentiles) to obey the Law. But was actaully about to get a two ton ear full because Paul was telling the Jews out amongst the Gentiles to ALSO set aside Moses (or the Law)

At another point (earlier) when the Jews tried to make the saved Gentile believers become obedient to the Law What did the Counsil of Elders say:

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses.
..................
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
..................
Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.

Again - No command to keep the commandments - NOPE not ONCE, even from Paul but it was Pauls wisdom FROM GOD to not bind them under the law.[/quote]

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;

1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Tts 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain

Yep, sounds like He is says NOT to maintain under the Law.

 

[DHK]

These laws were never abolished as DHK and others would have us to believe.

Why do you ignore the OP, which is the real question?
Show me in Scripture where Jesus came preaching the Ten Commandments
That has been the challenge ever since the very first post. Why have all of you avoided it? The answer is obvious. You can't demonstrate that Jesus ever preached the Ten Commandments. You have failed to meet the challenge. Admit it. He never came to preach the Ten Commandments, otherwise the Scripture would say that he did.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Jesus taught the disciples to keep the commandments, else we would not have John teaching the importance of keeping them.

When He told them to 'observe and teach whatsoever things I have commanded you', He was indeed telling them to teach the commandments.

If you say He did not teach the Disciples to keep the commandments, then you need to go back and read the nineteenth chapter of Matthew. The Disciples were present when He told the man to keep the commandments. They were indeed learning that same principle that their Master was saying must be observed.

We know he was teaching them, for as soon as the man turned to leave, He then turned and spoke to the Disciples.
The Disciples at that time explained that they had forsaken all to follow Christ, so great was their love for Him!

 

[DHK]

Jesus taught the disciples to keep the commandments, else we would not have John teaching the importance of keeping them.

When He told them to 'observe and teach whatsoever things I have commanded you', He was indeed telling them to teach the commandments.

Your whole argument is a red herring. It has nothing to do with what I believe. That is irrelevant. It doesn't answer the OP.
I will give you an example of how you have answered the OP

If you don't believe that Jesus taught his disciples to pray you need to go back and read John 16:24:
"Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name, ask and ye shall receive that your joy may be full."
Neither have you considered the Lord's Prayer recorded in Mat.6; or the parable in Luke 18, where he begins that "men ought always to pray and not to faint."
You don't believe that Christ came to teach prayer do you?

That is the example of the kind of argument that you are giving me. Go back and read the OP.
What was the purpose of Jesus coming?
I challenge you: Find me any Scripture that says that Christ came to preach the Ten Commandments.
I have given you dozens of Scripture where it says that Christ came to preach the gospel. but you have given nothing to the contrary.

 

[Brother Bob]

You are wasting your breath Diggin, he will not either read your answers or will not listen. He has been told by several where Jesus preached the commandments and yet he will not listen. I haven't heard him dispute the answers telling him where to go and look.

 

[DHK]

You are wasting your breath Diggin, he will not either read your answers or will not listen. He has been told by several where Jesus preached the commandments and yet he will not listen. I haven't heard him dispute the answers telling him where to go and look.

Let me refresh your memory:

DHK said (in reference to sin and the law: (that Jesus said)
"Every idle word that a man shall say he shall so give account of in the day of judgement.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."
--That is a command, a law of Jesus. It is just as bad to break that law as it is to break one of the Ten, and you do it all the time on this board.

Brother Bob responded that breaking the law of this command (Matt.12:36,37 was not as serious as The Ten Commandments.

D28Guy was shocked to say the least, and replied: HUH! Where do you get that?
"Whoso keeps the whole law and yet offends on one point he is gullty of breaking all the law."

Then the exact response of Brother Bob is this:

Because the Ten are the ones the Lord came preaching

This is a false statement, Brother Bob! It is totally false. Why don't you admit it?
I have posted Sceipture after Scripture.
Christ came preaching the gospel. Nowhere, not one verse in the Bible does it state that Christ came preaching the Ten Commandments. He came preaching the gospel. If you can prove that he came preaching the Ten Commandments why in all these seemingly wasted pages haven't you been able to post one single verse to support your claim. It is false. He came preaching the gospel. Either admit your statement to be wrong or demonstrate your statement to be true. One or the other. But stop beating around the bush!!

 

[Brother Bob]

Either admit your statement to be wrong or demonstrate your statement to be true. One or the other. But stop beating around the bush!!

1Jo 2:3


And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.


DHK;
Where did John get this Gospel? Do you have any idea at all?

Mat 19:18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

DHK;
Have you ever read Matt:?

I quoted Jesus, are you saying He made a false statement???????

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Which part of 'THOU SHALT NOT' do people not understand?

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Jesus said, 'If you love me, keep my commandments'. Instead of arguing that we can break the commandments without fear of being denied entrance into the kingdom, why not just obey Him and show Him you love Him?

The more you argue that we can break the commandments, the more it makes me wonder where your heart really is.

The whole argument started over the fact that you want to believe that you can commit some abominable sin prior to death and God will just overlook it because at one time you made a profession of faith in Christ.

Jesus said in Matthew 12 that 'out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh'. So, I ask again, where is your heart?

Does your claim that you can sin freely bringing honor to the Lord? or to another lord?

 

[DHK]

1Jo 2:3


And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Bob, can you read?
1John 2:3 is not in the gospels, not is it the words of Jesus, but rather the words of John. Again: Show me in the gospels where Jesus says that he came to preach the Ten Commandments.

DHK;
Where did John get this Gospel? Do you have any idea at all?

That is irrelevant. Where did Thomas or Barthelomew get their gospels? They were followers of Jesus too. You are avoiding the question. (as usual). Show me from the gospels where Jesus came preaching the Ten Commandments. He didn't. He came preaching the gospel. Speaking of the gospel of John, however, that is where we find the message of "the second birth," and many of the Scriptures that emphasize beleiving on Jesus in order to have eternal life. The gospel is emphasized and the law is de-emphasized. It places a lesser value on the law in the gospels. However many times it says that Christ came to preach the gospel. But you don't accept that.

Mat 19:18

He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

He also said: "Men ought always to pray and not to faint." What is your point?
Fill in the blank:
Jesus came preaching the ___________________

DHK;
Have you ever read Matt:?

By your post it seems that you have not.

I quoted Jesus, are you saying He made a false statement???????

I have quoted Christ a number of times and you deny it to be true. You won't admit that you are in error. You have made an erroneous statement. Not once in the gospels did Jesus ever say that he came to preach the Ten Commandments. Why did you claim that he did? Please don't say that I have made a false statement. This whole thread started with a false statement that you made and refuse to admit.

 

[DHK]

Jesus said, 'If you love me, keep my commandments'. Instead of arguing that we can break the commandments without fear of being denied entrance into the kingdom, why not just obey Him and show Him you love Him?

The more you argue that we can break the commandments, the more it makes me wonder where your heart really is.

The whole argument started over the fact that you want to believe that you can commit some abominable sin prior to death and God will just overlook it because at one time you made a profession of faith in Christ.

Jesus said in Matthew 12 that 'out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh'. So, I ask again, where is your heart?

Does your claim that you can sin freely bringing honor to the Lord? or to another lord?

Do you even read the posts before you put your foot in your mouth? :BangHead:

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Again: Show me in the gospels where Jesus says that he came to preach the Ten Commandments.

Luke 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

What is His Father's Will that we should pray for?

Deuteronomy 11:26-28 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

God's will is that we honor His Word and keep His Commandments.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Jesus still wants us to keep the commandments.

 

[DHK]

Diggin,
I am amazed at your reading skills (or lack thereof)!!
I am not asking you to show me what Jesus did not did not teach.

Show me in the gospels where Jesus preached the Ten Commandments.

If you can't do that then kindly bow out of the discussion.
Jesus came to preach the gospel. That statement is made both by Christ himself and the gospel writers many times. For that purpose he came. It is indiisputable.

Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Matthew 9:35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

Matthew 11:4-5 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Luke 8:1 And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were UNTIL John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Part of the gospel was 'keep the commandments'.

Whether you want to accept it or not, DidW clearly showed that Christ showed the will of the Father is that man keep the commandments.

Jesus clearly preached the law when He said He did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. Nowhere in that phrase did He say that the law was not to be adhered to.