Ten Commandments Pre cross - Questions

[BobRyan]

What was the purpose of Jesus in coming to this earth--in his ministry during the three years before his death. It wasn't to preach about prayer, although he did teach some things about prayer. It wasn't to preach about the law, though he may have taught some things about the law. It wasn't to preach repentance although he may have taught some things about repentance. There is a difference between preaching and teaching. Why did Christ come? What was his ministry while on earth. This verse should answer it for you:
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The flaw in that sugar cookie is that In Matt 28 Christ said to "TEACH" others all that HE commanded The disciples -- HE did not say "Don't teach other what I TAUGHT you while on earth - just TEACH what I PREACHED at times" AS if they were two different things...

Your entire story fell apart in Matt 28 - again.

The gospel includes ALL of the Good news -- EVEN the New Covenant promise of God's LAW written on the tablets of the human heart! Those who seek to slice and dice the Gospel AWAY from the teaching of Christ - have gone too far.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

What is your problem DHK;
I have posted and others have posted of Jesus preaching the Ten Commandments. It is you who are afraid of them, not Jesus, not Paul and not me and many others on this board. You are the one along with a couple more. So, I will not be retracting anything. I would think you would want to retract where you said a man could be on his neighbor's wife when he died and still go to Heaven. I think that is false doctrine. IMO

Here is what you don't seem to get.
You stated a false statement, by saying that
Christ came preaching the Ten Commandments. He did not.
Granted, when he came, he taught many things: prayer, giving alms, fasting, worrying, faith, hypocrisy, hell, heaven, and so many other topics. But he did not come preaching the Ten Commandments.

Here is what he came preaching:


Matthew 9:35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

Why is it so hard for you to believe that Christ came to preach the gospel, especially when the Bible says that is what he came to do??

 

[DHK]

The flaw in that sugar cookie is that In Matt 28 Christ said to "TEACH" others all that HE commanded The disciples -- HE did not say "Don't teach other what I TAUGHT you while on earth - just TEACH what I PREACHED at times" AS if they were two different things...

Your entire story fell apart in Matt 28 - again.

The gospel includes ALL of the Good news -- EVEN the New Covenant promise of God's LAW written on the tablets of the human heart! Those who seek to slice and dice the Gospel AWAY from the teaching of Christ - have gone too far.

In Christ,

Bob

Christ had two ministries while on earth:
1. His ministry with his disciples as reflected in the Great Commission. To teach and disciple them.
2. His ministry among the masses of the people--to preach to them the gospel of the kingdom, as is stated many times in the gospels.

Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Matthew 9:35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

Matthew 11:4-5 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Luke 8:1 And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were UNTIL John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

 

[BobRyan]

Just when you think you can insert the wild notion that "Christ did not PREACH what He TAUGHT so we can IGNORE what He TAUGHT" --

The flaw in that sugar cookie is that In Matt 28 Christ said to "TEACH" others all that HE commanded The disciples -- HE did not say "Don't teach other what I TAUGHT you while on earth - just TEACH what I PREACHED at times" AS if they were two different things...

Your entire story fell apart in Matt 28 - again.

The gospel includes ALL of the Good news -- EVEN the New Covenant promise of God's LAW written on the tablets of the human heart! Those who seek to slice and dice the Gospel AWAY from the teaching of Christ - have gone too far.

---------------------------

Just when you think you can spin "Christ's Word is NOT God the Father's IS NOT the Commandments of God" --

John 12
44 And Jesus cried out and said, "" He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me.
45 "" He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me.
46 "" I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness.
47 ""If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 "" He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
49 "" For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
50 ""I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.''

 

[DHK]

The flaw in that sugar cookie is that In Matt 28 Christ said to "TEACH" others all that HE commanded The disciples -- HE did not say "Don't teach other what I TAUGHT you while on earth - just TEACH what I PREACHED at times" AS if they were two different things...

Your entire story fell apart in Matt 28 - again.

The gospel includes ALL of the Good news -- EVEN the New Covenant promise of God's LAW written on the tablets of the human heart! Those who seek to slice and dice the Gospel AWAY from the teaching of Christ - have gone too far.

The gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, as is described in 1Cor.15:3,4. Jesus allude to his death many times during his ministry. If you don't believe that this good news is the gospel, or if you believe that the gospel includes much more than this then you believe in another gospel, which Paul condemns in Galatians chapter one with very strong words. There is only one gospel.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

 

[BobRyan]

Just when you imagine that the "LAW and the Prophets CEASED with the preaching of John "

2Tim 3:16 "ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God AND IS profitable for doctrine".

Luke 24 -
25 And He said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken[/B]!
26 "Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?"
27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures. [/B]

Just when you think the ALL Scripture of 2Tim 3:16 is dead -

John 10:35 "The Scriptures CAN NOT be broken"

 

[DHK]

Just when you think you can spin "Christ's Word is NOT God the Father's IS NOT the Commandments of God" --

John 12
44 And Jesus cried out and said, "" He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me.
45 "" He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me.
46 "" I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness.
47 ""If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 "" He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
49 "" For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
50 ""I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.''

None of the above even allude to the preaching of the Ten Commandments. Jesus never came with the purpose of preaching the Ten Commandments. That is not once referred to in the above posted verses.

 

[BobRyan]

The gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, as is described in 1Cor.15:3,4.

The Gospel INCLUDES the future Judgment of all mankind "WHEN according to my GOSPEL GOD WILL JUDGE" Romans 2.

There is only ONE GOSPEL Gal 1:6-9

That Gospel INCLUDES the message about WORSHIP and JUDGMENT by the one who "CREATED the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of waters" Rev 14.

The Gospel INCLUDES the conversion of many of the saints AND the post-cross appearances of Christ 1Cor 15:1-8 INCLUDING His appearances to Paul.

those who try to "downsize the gospel" into a "nugget" that EXCLUDES the good news of Christ's teachings - are slicing and dicing scripture in persuit of man-made tradition.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

Just when you imagine that the "LAW and the Prophets CEASED with the preaching of John "

2Tim 3:16 "ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God AND IS profitable for doctrine".

Luke 24 -
25And He said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken[/b]!
26 "Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?"
27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures. [/b]

Just when you think the ALL Scripture of 2Tim 3:16 is dead -

John 10:35 "The Scriptures CAN NOT be broken"

Does that mean you deny the words of Jesus. He is the one that said the law and the prophets ceased with John.

 

[BobRyan]

None of the above even allude to the preaching of the Ten Commandments. Jesus never came with the purpose of preaching the Ten Commandments. That is not once referred to in the above posted verses.

The reader "easily SEES" the commandment of GOD reference RIGHT where you insist that the Commandments of Christ ARE NOT the Commandments of God!

Your argument failed in John 12 -- again.

John 12
44 And Jesus cried out and said, "" He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me.
45 "" He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me.
46 "" I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness.
47 ""If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 "" He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
49 "" For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
50 ""I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.''

 

[BobRyan]

Does that mean you deny the words of Jesus. He is the one that said the law and the prophets ceased with John.

No text in all of scripture says "The Law and the prophets CEASED with John".

Luke 24 -
25And He said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken[/b]!
26 "Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?"
27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures. [/b]

Just when you think the ALL Scripture of 2Tim 3:16 is dead -

John 10:35 "The Scriptures CAN NOT be broken"

 

[DHK]

The Gospel INCLUDES the future Judgment of all mankind "WHEN according to my GOSPEL GOD WILL JUDGE" Romans 2.

You are reading into this Scripture something that is not there. You have a false gospel.

The Gospel INCLUDES the conversion of many of the saints AND the post-cross appearances of Christ 1Cor 15:1-8 INCLUDING His appearances to Paul.

Correct! Because they believed on the sacrificial work of Christ.

those who try to "downsize the gospel" into a "nugget" that EXCLUDES the good news of Christ's teachings - are slicing and dicing scripture in persuit of man-made tradition.

The gospel is simple--the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Check 1Cor.15:1-4. Anything more than that is heresy. Many add on to this simple message the teaching of the law and of works. That is heresy.

 

[DHK]

No text in all of scripture says "The Law and the prophets CEASED with John".

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were UNTIL John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

 

[DHK]

50 ""I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.''

This in no way refers to the Ten Commandments.
You have to do a lot of Scripture twisting to get that out of this verse.

 

[BobRyan]

You are reading into this Scripture something that is not there. You have a false gospel.

wild empty vaccuous claim DHK - and you offer nothing to support it.

But I "by contrast" have the "inconvenient details" of 1Cor 15 where the reader SEES the conversion of the saints including INCLUDED in the Gospel story Paul provides there in those verses.

Your argument failed in 1Cor 15 right where you wanted to truncate the sentence mid-stream -- again.


1 Cor 15

1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;
7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles;
8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.

 

[BobRyan]

This in no way refers to the Ten Commandments.
You have to do a lot of Scripture twisting to get that out of this verse.

The reader can easily see that JUST when you need to make the argument the the Commandemnts of God the Father are NOT the commandments of Christ -- it turns out that SCRIPTURE says they ARE!

John 12
44 And Jesus cried out and said, "" He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me.
45 "" He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me.
46 "" I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness.
47 ""If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 "" He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
49 "" For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
50 ""I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.''

 

[BobRyan]

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were UNTIL John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

The word "UNTIL" can not be translated "CEASED WITH" -- without considerable eisegesis. THat is why we see Christ "upholding and TEACHING" from the SCRIPTURES in Luke 24 and it is why we see them used repeatedly in the NT as authorotative text of God's Word.

Read Eph 6:1-4 to see their CONTINUED use in the NT

Read 2Tim 3:16 to see their CONTINUED use "FOR DOCTRINE" as part of the "ALL SCRIPTURE" spoken of by Paul.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Our Saviour in these words gives the Pharisees to understand that their contempt of his person and doctrine was the more inexcusable, because they lived in and under the clearest light of the gospel: the preaching of the law and the prophets continued but until John the Baptist came among you; since which time the gospel has been clearly preached both by him and myself unto you; and it has pleased God to give my doctrine great acceptation in the world. Though you Pharisees reject it, yet every one, that is, very many, press into it; so that the doctrine which you mock, the holy doctrine of the gospel, others will embrace. Yet lest, while Christ spoke thus highly of the gospel, the Pharisees should reproach him as a destroyer of the law, he shows that the obligation of the moral law was of eternal force, and that heaven and earth should sooner pass, than the obligation of the law cease; which yet the Pharisees most shamefully violated, particularly the seventh commandment, which they brake by permitting and practising divorces, upon upon unjustifiable grounds.

Learn hence, that the moral law, in all the branches of it, which is summarily comprehended in the ten commandments, is an eternal rule of life and manners, which is to stand in force as long as the world stands, and the frame of heaven and earth endures.

William Burkitt notes on Luke 16:16

As William Burkitt notes, and I and others have pointed out, Jeuss did not destroy the law. We are still under obligation to keep the law.

If we keep not the law, we are said bby John to not know the truth.

 

[DHK]

The word "UNTIL" can not be translated "CEASED WITH" -- without considerable eisegesis. .

That is no eisigesis Bob. Your argument is with Christ, the author of the Scriptures, not with me.

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: from that time the gospel of the kingdom of God is preached, and every man entereth violently into it. (ASV)
--until the time of John. From that time, the time of John, the gospel of the kingdom of God is preached. The verse is very plain.

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: from that time the glad tidings of the kingdom of God are announced, and every one forces his way into it. (Darby)
--Consistent with the ASV

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John. From that time the gospel of the Kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. (WEB)
--Consistent with the ASV

Luke 16:16 the law and the prophets are till John; since then the reign of God is proclaimed good news, and every one doth press into it; (Young's Literal)
--Here it says that they were "till John; since then" Since that time, the time of the law and prophets...

Bob you have lost your argument here. There is no eisigesis except if it be on your part. The verse means what it says. The law and the prophets ceased with John. They were up until the time of John.

 

[DHK]

If we keep not the law, we are said bby John to not know the truth.

So what is your point? You also agree that we must keep the law to be saved?