Ten Commandments Pre cross - Questions

[DHK]

wild empty vaccuous claim DHK - and you offer nothing to support it.

But I "by contrast" have the "inconvenient details" of 1Cor 15 where the reader SEES the conversion of the saints including INCLUDED in the Gospel story Paul provides there in those verses.

Your argument failed in 1Cor 15 right where you wanted to truncate the sentence mid-stream -- again.

I fail to see your point Bob.
1Cor.15, whether it be verses 3 and 4 or 1-4 or 1-8; it doesn't matter to me. It teaches the same truth. Salvation is through the same message--the gospel--the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That is what those verses teach, and emphasize very strongly. By posting that passage of Scripture you only emphasize what I have been saying all along.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

According to God's Word, one who does not keep the law, is lawless. One who does not keep the law, does not know Christ.

Jesus did not come to destroy or do away with the law as you are preaching; He came to fulfill it.

The people before John did not have the gospel of the Kingdom. They had the Law. John preached repentance and faith toward Christ.

When Christ came, He did indeed preach the gospel of the Kingdom, as you say... but He also gave the command to keep the law.

Are we not to obey Christ? If He gave the command to obey the Law, are we not obligated to obey the Law?

 

[DHK]

According to God's Word, one who does not keep the law, is lawless. One who does not keep the law, does not know Christ.

And it was fulfilled on the cross when his blood was sacrificed for us.

1. The purpose of the law is to point us to our sin.
2. If you break just one point in the law you are just as guilty as breaking all the law (James 2:10).
3. Since you have done that (all have sinned [Rom.3:23]), you too are lawless.
4. Since you are lawless, you have condemned yourself to Hell by your own admission, and do not know Christ by your own admission.
5. All men break the law. Paul stated that very clearly:

Galatians 3:10 for as many as are of works of law are under a curse, for it hath been written, `Cursed is every one who is not remaining in all things that have been written in the Book of the Law--to do them,'
--No man, from birth to death, has kept all the law without break, that is without breaking at least one of the commandments at least one time in their life time. If you are honest with yourself, you will admit that you break these commandments every day. If you want to know how, I will be happy to show you how you do. You are a law breaker like every one else on this board, and thus (according to you) do not know Christ. You condemn yourself.

In effect you say that the blood of Christ is not sufficient enough to cover your sins. You have to do some work yourself to atone for your own sins, which is the grreatest possible insult that Christ could ever receive.
Christ died for your sins; all of them--past, present, and future. His blood was sufficient enough to pay the penalty for all. If not then why did he die?

It is hard to hear the one who insults the Christ who paid the penalty for my sins, who shed his blood on my behalf; to hear the one who believes that the blood of Christ is not sufficient to atone for one's sins.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Christ Himself told us to keep the Law. I am sorry you want to disobey Christ.

John said if we say we love God and keep not His commandments, we are liars and the truth is not in us. I am sorry you claim we do not have to keep the commandmetns.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

If you are honest with yourself, you will admit that you break these commandments every day.

Let me see here....

Did not set up false God's yesterday...
Did not make any graven images...
Did not take God's name in vain...
Do not work on the Sabbath day...
Did not lie...
Did not steal...
Did ot kill...
Did not covet anything of my neighbor's...


Did not, did not, did not.

Why do you falsely accuse me?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Why does His Word command us to keep the commandments?

Wht would Christ tell us to keep the commandments if He really did not mean it?

Why would John sayu if you don't keep thecommandments you don't know God?

 

[DHK]

Let me see here....

Did not set up false God's yesterday...
Did not make any graven images..

These two commands have to do with idolatry. Here is what the Scriptures say:

Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

Covetousness is idolatry. It is one of the most common sins among Christians. Please don't tell me that you have never walked through a mall or even a store, and have never said something to the effect, "I wish I had a computer like that" or a "car like that," or some electronic_______like that" etc. All of that is covetousness. You have never desired something that is not yours. Are you sure of that? If you say no, I will say you are lying for it is in the human nature to do so. Then you will have committed the sin of lying.

Did not take God's name in vain...

Are you sure about this?
Do you know what the meaning of the words like "Gee, Gee Whiz, "for goodness sake," good Lord! God! darn! darn it! etc. There are many, many euphemisms that express taking the Lord's in vain that most Christians use every day without realizing it because they don't think about what they are saying.

Do not work on the Sabbath day...

Non applicable. And if it was, I am sure that you have broken it. You would break it by simply turning on your light switch or stove, oven, and any heating appliance; anything that would be used for cooking or heating.

Did not lie...

Even the Bible indicates that man lies every day. It tells us: "Let God be true but every man a liar." You are a liar by God's standard. Don't pretend not to be. You have lied even on this very post.

Did not steal...

Have you quoted anybody here without giving credit to who you have posted. That is stealing a person's words. Plagiarism is stealing. Cheating is stealing. Cheating on taxes is stealing. There are many forms of stealing. Copyimg material without proper permission is stealing a person's work. This is particularly true in the musical field these days. Have you downloaded any music lately? Any sermons that you have not given credit for. What information have you stolen from the internet?

Did ot kill...

Jesus said killing was being angry with your brother. How often have you done that? Some of your posts have displayed anger. If you display anger on this board, how much more do you display anger in real life. You have to be honest with yourself here.

Did not covet anything of my neighbor's...

Your neighbor is more than just who lives next door. In this present week, have you coveted anything of anybody's, including things that you see in the stores that you go to? Desired things that are not yours? Even that might be in flyers or advertised on TV? Have you never desired anything at all that is not yours? I find that hard to believe.

Did not, did not, did not.
Why do you falsely accuse me?

I find that hard to believe, and I don't believe I am falsely accusing you.

He that says he has no sin makes Jesus Christ a liar.
Is that you?

 

[DHK]

Why does His Word command us to keep the commandments?

Wht would Christ tell us to keep the commandments if He really did not mean it?

Why would John sayu if you don't keep thecommandments you don't know God?

You do err not knowing the Scriptures neither the power of God.
John does not say to keep the Ten Commandments.
He says to keep the commands of Jesus; a far different command.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

These two commands have to do with idolatry. Here is what the Scriptures say:

Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

Covetousness is idolatry. It is one of the most common sins among Christians. Please don't tell me that you have never walked through a mall or even a store, and have never said something to the effect, "I wish I had a computer like that" or a "car like that," or some electronic_______like that" etc. All of that is covetousness. You have never desired something that is not yours. Are you sure of that? If you say no, I will say you are lying for it is in the human nature to do so. Then you will have committed the sin of lying.

Are you sure about this?
Do you know what the meaning of the words like "Gee, Gee Whiz, "for goodness sake," good Lord! God! darn! darn it! etc. There are many, many euphemisms that express taking the Lord's in vain that most Christians use every day without realizing it because they don't think about what they are saying.

Non applicable. And if it was, I am sure that you have broken it. You would break it by simply turning on your light switch or stove, oven, and any heating appliance; anything that would be used for cooking or heating.

Even the Bible indicates that man lies every day. It tells us: "Let God be true but every man a liar." You are a liar by God's standard. Don't pretend not to be. You have lied even on this very post.

Have you quoted anybody here without giving credit to who you have posted. That is stealing a person's words. Plagiarism is stealing. Cheating is stealing. Cheating on taxes is stealing. There are many forms of stealing. Copyimg material without proper permission is stealing a person's work. This is particularly true in the musical field these days. Have you downloaded any music lately? Any sermons that you have not given credit for. What information have you stolen from the internet?

Jesus said killing was being angry with your brother. How often have you done that? Some of your posts have displayed anger. If you display anger on this board, how much more do you display anger in real life. You have to be honest with yourself here.

Your neighbor is more than just who lives next door. In this present week, have you coveted anything of anybody's, including things that you see in the stores that you go to? Desired things that are not yours? Even that might be in flyers or advertised on TV? Have you never desired anything at all that is not yours? I find that hard to believe.


I find that hard to believe, and I don't believe I am falsely accusing you.

He that says he has no sin makes Jesus Christ a liar.
Is that you?

Satan is the accuser of the brethren.

You do not know my walk with my Savior. Just because you think the commandments have to be broken by each and every individual each and every day, does not make it a fact that they are.

Your false accusations of me are uncalled for.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

You do err not knowing the Scriptures neither the power of God.
John does not say to keep the Ten Commandments.
He says to keep the commands of Jesus; a far different command.

You do err...

1Jo 2:4
3He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
3. Holiness, that is, a life ordered according to the prescript of God's commandments, however weak we are, is of necessity joined with faith, that is, with the true knowledge of the Father in the Son. Geneva

 

[standingfirminChrist]

1 John 2:3 1Jo 2:3


Observe here, 1. That a Christian may be assured of his salvation; to know that we know, is to be assured that we know; not only to have the vital, but the fiducial act of faith. Some Christians can say, "We know that we know him."

Observe, 2. The nature of true Christian knowledge discovered: it is an obedient knowledge: it is not sufficient to profess that we know Christ, except we yield sincere obedience to him: for this is a certain mark and proof that we know Christ effectually, if we love him, and keep his commandments. The true knowledge of God consists in keeping of the word of God, the whole word of God, and because it is his.

Observe, 3. That to say we know God, when we do not keep his commandments, and to say we keep his commandments, when we do not know him, is a lie. Sad will their condition be who perish for want of the knowledge of God, but much sadder theirs, who perish in the neglect or abuse of that knowledge.

Observe, 4. That a conscientious care, and constant endeavor to observe the word, and keep the law of God, is a certain mark and evidence that he that doth it has the love of God perfected in him, and towards him; Whosoever keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected. William Burkitt Notes

 

[standingfirminChrist]

1 John 2:3 1Jo 2:3


Verse 3. And hereby we do know that we know him] If we keep the commandments of God, loving him with all our heart, and our neighbour as ourselves, we have the fullest proof that we have the true saving knowledge of God and his Christ. The Gnostics pretended to much knowledge, but their knowledge left them in possession of all their bad passions and unholy habits; they, therefore, gave no proof that they had known either God or his Son Jesus-nor is any man properly acquainted with God, who is still under the power of his sins.
Adam Clarke Commentary

 

[standingfirminChrist]

1 John 2:3 1Jo 2:3


2:3 (2) And hereby we do know that we (e) know him, (e) if we keep his commandments.

(2) He returns to the testimony of our union with God, that is, to sanctification, declaring what it is to walk in the light, that is, to keep God's commandments. By this it follows that holiness does not consist in those things which men have devised, neither in a vain profession of the gospel. (d) This must be understood of such a knowledge as has faith with it, and not of a common knowledge. (e) For the tree is known by the fruit. Geneva

 

[DHK]

1 John 2:3 1Jo 2:3
2:3 (2) And hereby we do know that we (e) know him, (e) if we keep his commandments.

1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
In this post and in your previous ones you keep on admitting, that according to this verse that you make Christ a liar, and his word in not in you.
You say you keep his commandments, and I have made no false accusations against you that you have sinned. If you haven't sinned then the only reasonalbe conclusion according to the Word of God is, that according to you, Christ is a liar, and the truth is not in you.
I feel sorry for you.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The key in 1 John 1:10 is the past tense 'have not sinned'. Here, John was saying that we have sinned in the past. And Paul echoed the words when he said 'For all have sinned...' again, past tense.

When one is in Christ, one need not give in to sin. As a matter of fact, if one obeys the comandments, after coming to the knowledge of Christ, one can be asured of not committing willfull sin.

For if we walk with our eyes on Christ, neither looking to the right or to the left; if we obey His Word and keep His commandments, we truly will not want to sin.

His commandments, as has been pointed out time and again, are not grievous. That means they are not so hard that man cannot keep them. Any who would say it is impossible to keep the commandments are calling God's Word a lie.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Jesus said killing was being angry with your brother.

Now, here we see a gross misrepresentation of the Word of God. You want so much to be right that you twist the Scripture to prove you are right.

Nowhere does Jesus say killing was being angry with your brother.

Matthew 5 tells us that if we are angry with our brother without a cause we are in danger of judgment.

Jesus told us it is ok to be angry.

Be ye angry and sin not

We also read in the Word of God that he that hates his brother is a murderer.

But nowhere does the word say if we are angry with our brother we are murderers. Anger, if allowed to fester can turn into hate which is murder. But anger in itself is not murder.

DHK, I feel sorry for you. In your zeal to serve God, you are butchering His Holy Word.

Study more then come back and debate if you wish.

And no, I am not angry, nor were any of my posts written in anger. I get the picture that you think every time one disagrees with you, they are angry and therefore killing.

 

[grahame]

A question to Seventh Day Adventists.
Have you been circumcised according to the law? Just interested that's all. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Hope ya don't think I am SDA, Grahame...

I am an ordained Baptist Minister.

 

[Shiloh]

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Here, I. The apostle, having supposed that even those of this heavenly communion have yet their sin, proceeds here to justify that supposition, and this he does by showing the dreadful consequences of denying it, and that in two particulars: - 1. If we say, We have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us, 1Jo_1:8. We must beware of deceiving ourselves in denying or excusing our sins. The more we see them the more we shall esteem and value the remedy. If we deny them, the truth is not in us, either the truth that is contrary to such denial (we lie in denying our sin), or the truth of religion, is not in us

The denial of our sin not only deceives ourselves, but reflects dishonour upon God. It challenges his veracity. He has abundantly testified of, and testified against, the sin of the world.

But God has given his testimony to the continued sin and sinfulness of the world, by providing a sufficient effectual sacrifice for sin, that will be needed in all ages, and to the continued sinfulness of believers themselves by requiring them continually to confess their sins, and apply themselves by faith to the blood of that sacrifice. And therefore, if we say either that we have not sinned or do not yet sin, the word of God is not in us, neither in our minds, as to the acquaintance we should have with it, nor in our hearts, as to the practical influence it should have upon us.
The apostle then instructs the believer in the way to the continued pardon of his sin. Here we have, 1. His duty in order thereto: If we confess our sins, 1Jo_1:9. Penitent confession and acknowledgment of sin are the believer's business, and the means of his deliverance from his guilt. And, 2. His encouragement thereto, and assurance of the happy issue. This is the veracity, righteousness, and clemency of God, to whom he makes such confession: He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

God is faithful to his covenant and word, wherein he has promised forgiveness to penitent believing confessors. Henry

 

[Brother Bob]

Does that mean you deny the words of Jesus. He is the one that said the law and the prophets ceased with John.__________________
DHK

Don't say they ceased. Says the Law and the Prophets were until John.

You just used about Abraham and David to me and then say they ceased with John?

This is where you lack not knowing the scriptures, just pick and choose.