Ten Commandments Pre cross - Questions

[rbell]

So DITW, have you broken any of God's commandments since you became a Christian?

 

[grahame]

you never can do something "toward your salvation" if you do that you arent keeping the commandments are you? You are being self-centered, which is the opposite of love. You keep the commandments and do what God says because you LOVE HIM and you LOVE your neighbor.

and heres the thing,,, who will be in heaven? who did God prepare heaven FOR?


1Cor:2:9: But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that LOVE HIM.


well then how do we know we love God?

Jn:14:15: If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Jn:14:21: He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Jn:14:23: Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

1Jn:4:20: If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

1Jn:5:2: By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1Jn:3:15: Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him


does that mean we do things FOR or TOWARD our salvation in order TO be saved? OF COURSE NOT! If we did that we would be just as selfish as the non-believers.

Claudia

But Claudia, as I said before. I am not thinking of proof that we love him. But rather what it is that we are trusting in alone. There is a subtle difference. One is looking for evidence that we are saved. The other is faith without works. In other words trusting in Him alone.

 

[Brother Bob]

According to scripture you can say all day long "you trust in Him" but if you keep not His Commandments, it is just words and not the truth. That should be easy to understand. We don't add anything. Its already there.

 

[Claudia_T]

But Claudia, as I said before. I am not thinking of proof that we love him. But rather what it is that we are trusting in alone. There is a subtle difference. One is looking for evidence that we are saved. The other is faith without works. In other words trusting in Him alone.

okay but I never said I wasnt trusting in Him alone. People assume that Im not. But I never ever have said that Im not. If I WERE trusting in my good works for salvation then I would be self-centered.

We should not make self the center and indulge anxiety and fear as to whether we shall be saved. All this turns the soul away from the Source of our strength. Commit the keeping of your soul to God, and trust in Him. Talk and think of Jesus. Let self be lost in Him. Put away all doubt; dismiss your fears. Say with the apostle Paul, "I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20. Rest in God. He is able to keep that which you have committed to Him. If you will leave yourself in His hands, He will bring you off more than conqueror through Him that has loved you.


I almost feel on here like Im speaking the language of heaven or something, that others cant understand. But its so simple.


I do good works BECAUSE I love God

I trust in God alone BECAUSE I love God and BECAUSE His blood alone atones for my sins

You know, you CAN do both things!

but its as if these people on here just cant get that! Its weird, actually

I cant help it if the Bible says those who keep the commandments will be in heaven... but thats what it says


Rv:22:14: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I have nothing to do with that, all I care about is giving glory to God because of his love for me...

Mt:5:16: Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


but its as if people cannot fathom the simple idea of trying to do right just because you love God... its like a foreign language to them and then at the same time trusting to God alone and the blood of Christ for atonement...


Its the PHARISEES who trusted in their own merits... NOT ME!

Claudia

 

[Brother Bob]

But God is "good". How on earth can you be "Christlike" without doing good, which is the Commandments. You cannot separate Christ from Good. You cannot have one without the other. The "word" was made flesh. Think what that is saying, if Christ is the "word" and the Commandments are part of the "word". Oh, the means we go to try and get around the Commandments to the point we try to divide the "word".

 

[DHK]

But God is "good". How on earth can you be "Christlike" without doing good, which is the Commandments. You cannot separate Christ from Good. You cannot have one without the other. The "word" was made flesh. Think what that is saying, if Christ is the "word" and the Commandments are part of the "word". Oh, the means we go to try and get around the Commandments to the point we try to divide the "word".

Salvation is entirely apart from works

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Brother Bob]

Salvation is entirely apart from works

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.__________________
DHK

Law of circumcism and sacrifice.

 

[rbell]

So DITW, have you broken any of God's commandments since you became a Christian?

anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Not in some time now, you?

 

[grahame]

No. I'm perfect in every way.

 

[grahame]

okay but I never said I wasnt trusting in Him alone. People assume that Im not. But I never ever have said that Im not. If I WERE trusting in my good works for salvation then I would be self-centered.

We should not make self the center and indulge anxiety and fear as to whether we shall be saved. All this turns the soul away from the Source of our strength. Commit the keeping of your soul to God, and trust in Him. Talk and think of Jesus. Let self be lost in Him. Put away all doubt; dismiss your fears. Say with the apostle Paul, "I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20. Rest in God. He is able to keep that which you have committed to Him. If you will leave yourself in His hands, He will bring you off more than conqueror through Him that has loved you.


I almost feel on here like Im speaking the language of heaven or something, that others cant understand. But its so simple.


I do good works BECAUSE I love God

I trust in God alone BECAUSE I love God and BECAUSE His blood alone atones for my sins

You know, you CAN do both things!

but its as if these people on here just cant get that! Its weird, actually

I cant help it if the Bible says those who keep the commandments will be in heaven... but thats what it says


Rv:22:14: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I have nothing to do with that, all I care about is giving glory to God because of his love for me...

Mt:5:16: Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


but its as if people cannot fathom the simple idea of trying to do right just because you love God... its like a foreign language to them and then at the same time trusting to God alone and the blood of Christ for atonement...


Its the PHARISEES who trusted in their own merits... NOT ME!

Claudia

Hey Claudia, you sound a bit like me. When I ask a simple question, people have to complicate it by pretenting I'm saying something else. :laugh:

 

[Brother Bob]

Where you all get in trouble is you equate spitting on the sidewalk as being the same as adultery. If someone says they have kept them the first thing you say is he is a liar and therefore couldn't of kept them. I have kept them to the best of my ability and if I have broken any of them I don't know it. I have given you an open field so "go for it".

 

[rbell]

Not in some time now, you?

Yes...I found myself coveting in an area of another person's station in life just yesterday.

My point is this: You have led people to believe that Christians won't break the Ten Commandments. Obviously that's not what you meant, since you have broken them since becoming a Christian.

Several times, I have stated that we should all strive to be free from sin, and that we should seek to see sin as God does, and be repulsed by it as He is. Unfortunately, I've been accused of being "soft on sin," "coddling sin," "not taking sin seriously," and "denying God's Word" with regard to sin.

But you've made my point: Christians do sin. We shouldn't, but we do. It is possible for a Christian to break a commandment. Some things happen when we do so:

• God's chastening
• Our fellowship with God and His people suffers
• Guilty conscience
• Hampered witness
• Creates a need to ask forgiveness from God (and possibly others)
• Consequences may not be removed.

Thank God for grace, and may we never take that for granted.

 

[rbell]

Where you all get in trouble is you equate spitting on the sidewalk as being the same as adultery. If someone says they have kept them the first thing you say is he is a liar and therefore couldn't of kept them. I have kept them to the best of my ability and if I have broken any of them I don't know it. I have given you an open field so "go for it".

1 John 1:8--
"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."

 

[Brother Bob]

You said the Commandments which is the Ten Commandments. You didn't say anything about angry, bad thoughts, missing church, failing to visit the sick, etc. So, I don't say I haven't sinned, just that I have not committed adultery, killed, stolen, dishonored my father and mother, coveted my neighbors wife, worshipped a cow etc.

 

[rbell]

You said the Commandments which is the Ten Commandments. You didn't say anything about angry, bad thoughts, missing church, failing to visit the sick, etc. So, I don't say I haven't sinned, just that I have not committed adultery, killed, stolen, dishonored my father and mother, coveted my neighbors wife, worshipped a cow etc.

and somehow those sins are "lesser" than "the big Ten?" I don't see the scriptural basis for that.

 

[Brother Bob]

several, there is a sin and there is a sin unto death.

You all equate spitting as if it were adultery. No wonder you think you can't keep the Commandments.

Jhn 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power [at all] against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

Lam 4:6 For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed on her.

2Ki 17:21For he rent Israel from the house of David; and they made Jeroboam the son of Nebat king: and Jeroboam drave Israel from following the LORD, and made them sin a great sin.

 

[Claudia_T]

Well thats the key. You have got to take the commandments to their most legalistic height so that you can then claim we cant keep them.

Its the modern day Pharisee. In the old days they would just keep the law outwardly but not inwardly thats why Jesus said they were whited walls, cleaning the outside of the cup and not the inside.

Today's Pharisee does neither... they make the law itself appear legalistic then they dont keep the law outwardly or inwardly.

Jesus said clean the inside of the cup and the outside as well.

 

[grahame]

You said the Commandments which is the Ten Commandments. You didn't say anything about angry, bad thoughts, missing church, failing to visit the sick, etc. So, I don't say I haven't sinned, just that I have not committed adultery, killed, stolen, dishonored my father and mother, coveted my neighbors wife, worshipped a cow etc.

I think our Lord widened the field somewhat on the commandments so as to include thoughts and intents of the heart. You just need to read His sermon on the mount to see that. I'm sure you don't need me to expand on that thought, for you already know these things.

 

[Claudia_T]

I think our Lord widened the field somewhat on the commandments so as to include thoughts and intents of the heart. You just need to read His sermon on the mount to see that. I'm sure you don't need me to expand on that thought, for you already know these things.

I agree with grahame as far as that goes..