Brother Bob said:
No, I say to repent in the first place and you will not do those wicked things for you are under the Grace of God who said He was able to keep you. You are the one who is denying the scriptures such as below.
1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
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I think the scripture I gave you "if it were possible" is telling us just how impossible it is for a child of God to commit the acts of 1 Cor. 6:.
"Come fellows and be saved and then you can commit adultery and it won't cause you to lose anything". How foolish.
Also, you amened grahame's post of where he said the Spirit would stop him long before he committed such acts. So, which is it, can you commit such acts, or not as a saved person. If I understand grahame, he said the Spirit would stop him, long before committing such an act. If that is what he believes then I agree with him. I sure wish that was what you and Ed and DHK were saying along with steaver and others.
grahame;
But I do know just a little of heart sins. These will condemn us long before we reach the adulterous bed or the act of stealing itself. Thou shalt not covet cuts very deep.
But then again, he speaks the other way also, so I don't know what he believes.
He will keep us. We may sin. In fact we are sure to sin. We may backslide
Just think if I wanted to please men instead of God all I have to do is say a child of God can committ adultery, lie, steal, kill, worship another God, slap father and mother around, did I mention adultery?
I would then be praised and amened. The devil would be pleased for sure.
I wonder if I might
try and make things a little clearer? I am going to say something that is going to be misunderstood. But bear with me, I am hoping that what I say will in the end be clearer. I said that if a person is justified by faith that a person is free from condemnation of the law. This means that in effect a person may sin against God an remain free from condemnation. In fact it doesn't matter even the extent or character of the sin. He is still forgiven from the moment he is born again. His sins are forgiven, past, present and future.
The Apostle Paul says this, if words mean anything, in Romans chapter 5 and verse 1.
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
In chapter 3 he takes great pains in working out this great doctrine of justification by faith and brings in two examples from the Old Testament to prove that the saints in those days were saved in exactly the same way as we are today.
Look at Abraham he says. Now notice that Abraham was saved and was called the friend of God and indeed was justified by faith in the same way as we are today. For it says that Abraham believed God and his faith was counted for righteousness. But notice that this was not only before God gave him circumcision as a seal. But that this event was well before the Law itself. Long before the Ten Commandments.
Now to cut a long story short as they say, Paul the apostle sums up this doctrine by declaring
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
So if we are at peace with God that means that we are no longer at war and under the law. But that is not all, before he can go on he forsees some objections from the Jewish contingent.
"Hold on a minute", they would say "If you say that a person is justified by faith alone without the works of the law, then this would give people licence to sin. You will open the floodgates of sin among believers. So, they reasoned, we need the law in order to control this sin in man.
NO! Pauls reasons, listen to him in chapter 6
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
There's the objection, but see here, he goes on
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Can you see what he is saying? He is saying in effect, if we are really justified by faith alone and are now "dead to sin". In other words we are now free from the condemnation of sin. Then far from saying, "We can sin with impunity". It would in fact have the opposite effect. Look at what he says in chapter 8
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
So because this is true of us, we would not reason in such a way, but would rather strive to glorify God in our lives. How can we live any longer therein? If we are no longer condemned by the law, which in fact in fact we are dead to.
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Because the law has no longer any hold over us, because we are now married to Christ, we no longer are condemned by the law. But rather we are free to live in Christ. We are no longer serving God in the flesh, but in the Spirit. We are not even sanctified by the law. We are sanctified (or made holy, being made holy that is) by the Spirit.
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
and again in chapter 8 again
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin
He says near enough the same thing to the Galatian Christians.
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
So what I am saying is this. We are justified by faith alone by the precious blood of Christ. But this doctrine, rather than creating within us the attitude that we can sin as much as we like, because whatever we do the Lord will forgive us. Which if that was true He certainly would and does. For he cleanses us from sin daily.
Nevertheless I would suggest that anyone who has that attitude towards sin has never really understood the doctrine of justification by faith alone. If someone does that kind of thing, then I would suggest some good old self examination to see whether we be in the faith.
So if we are Christians we must banish from our minds that the law has anything to do with us in the way of condemnation. For we are dead to the law and married to Christ as the apostle puts it. Not only that, but although we do sin, nevertheless we are to reckon ourselves dead to sin also. For as Paul the apostle says again in chapter 6 and verse 2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Then again in verse 11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Why should we not sin? Because we are controlled by the 10 commandments? No. But because we are now married to Christ and therefore we have new power over sin. For the apostle says, in the light of the fact that we are now dead to sin,
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
That my dear friends should be the reasoning of everyone who professes to be a Christian. Now just a note about the law. It no longer has the power to condemn us. But we can now keep this law (by faith) within our hearts and serve God, not in the oldness of the letter. Or in other words we slaves to the letter of the law. But to serve Him in a new way, in the Spirit of the law. For none of us would say that the commandment "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself", has been abandoned would we? No of course not. But what has happened is that we are now free to keep that law within our hearts. And our Lord extended it so that no longer does it apply only to our neighbours. But also towards our "enemies" as well.
