Terrible judgment

[ByGracethroughFaith]

The Lord has sent the most terrible judgment on America that has ever been. It is a horrible plague that slaughters many each day. Its guise is so sweet, its sting is so painful. Considered a divine right by many, and yet others are not so sure. It has been associated with freedom, and yet offers anything but freedom. There are none so vile as those entranced by it, and yet who can mess with it unharmed? Its consequences are much worse than even the Iraq war, and yet the Iraq war will help defeat it. Its consequences are much worse than the collapsing housing market, and yet this too will help defeat it. Its consequences are even worse than the goal of discovering life on other planets attempting to discredit the word of God, and yet this too will, to some extent at least, have its part in defeating it.

Some have considered communism the vilest evil in the world, and though the church goes underground, yet it survives communism, but this has done a more grievous work because it works just as easily from the inside the church as outside it. Others have considered popery the vilest evil in the world, and yet this villain slays even more than popery. It slays and slays and slays the souls of men with no remorse, and even causes the people to beg for more.

In some cases, it mistakenly causes people to think they are children of God because they have it, in other cases it causes children of God to stumble because they don’t have it. Such a grievous evil is this that comes in the name of blessing, and yet causes so many to refuse or deny the Saviour either in word or deed. It chases newborns, and the mature alike, never giving a moments rest, always looking for an advantage.

It has been referred to by Wilberforce as the one thing that ‘most hardens the heart towards God’. I think you are with me now and know what it is, but for clarity sake, I will give you its name…prosperity. Keep on your guard for it, lest it slay you too.


BGTF

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

BGTF: Keep on your guard for it, lest it slay you too.

HP: A very well done post that peeks the interest I might add. :thumbs: But……………… now lets bring this all to the reality we face every day on this list.

It has been said that Jesus spoke more about money than He did of heaven or hell. I suppose that is up to ones interpretation. Just the same, He did warn about the deceitfulness of riches and we know full well it is extremely hard for a rich man to enter heaven. But, why should all that worry the modern day believer who is born again according and holds fast to OSAS? Nothing they do or can do has any effect on their standing before God, so what would riches matter? So one would get the privilege of being taken home early due to prosperity ‘slaying you.” One simply trades their asphalt driveway and mansion for streets of pure gold and a mansion beyond imagination, and gets it all in advance!. I don’t get what all the fuss is about.

 

[ByGracethroughFaith]

HP: A very well done post that peeks the interest I might add. :thumbs: But……………… now lets bring this all to the reality we face every day on this list.

It has been said that Jesus spoke more about money than He did of heaven or hell. I suppose that is up to ones interpretation. Just the same, He did warn about the deceitfulness of riches and we know full well it is extremely hard for a rich man to enter heaven. But, why should all that worry the modern day believer who is born again according and holds fast to OSAS? Nothing they do or can do has any effect on their standing before God, so what would riches matter? So one would get the privilege of being taken home early due to prosperity ‘slaying you.” One simply trades their asphalt driveway and mansion for streets of pure gold and a mansion beyond imagination, and gets it all in advance!. I don’t get what all the fuss is about.

As far as affecting salvation, it can't do that, but one can end like Solomon/Hezekiah, or one can end like Paul/David. Those with greater love for Christ seek to end like Paul/David.

As per Christ in Rev 3:16-17 most of those in visible Christendom today are vomitable unsaved pretenders. There is no nation more prosperous than the US, and hence no nation where Christ will find more vomitable unsaved pretenders.

After hearing news like this, each of the disciples said in Matt 26:22...Lord, is it I?, which is the proper response. It was Judas singled out at the end, who was obligated to into say it to keep up his disguise, but note it is different. Matt 26:25...Master, is it I?

Matthew Heny Commentary on it.

Matt 26:17-25

(2.) They began every one of them to say, Lord, is it I?

[1.] They were not apt to suspect Judas. Though he was a thief, yet, it seems, he had carried it so plausibly, that those who were intimate with him, were not jealous of him: none of them so much as looked upon him, much less said, Lord, is it Judas? Note, It is possible for a hypocrite to go through the world, not only undiscovered, but unsuspected; like bad money so ingeniously counterfeited that nobody questions it.

[2.] They were apt to suspect themselves; Lord, is it I? Though they were not conscious to themselves of any inclination that way (no such thought had ever entered into their mind), yet they feared the worst, and asked Him who knows us better than we know ourselves, Lord, is it I? Note, It well becomes the disciples of Christ always to be jealous over themselves with a godly jealousy, especially in trying times. We know not how strongly we may be tempted, nor how far God may leave us to ourselves, and therefore have reason, not to be high-minded, but fear. It is observable that our Lord Jesus, just before he instituted the Lord's supper, put his disciples upon this trial and suspicion of themselves, to teach us to examine and judge ourselves, and so to eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

...4. The conviction of Judas, v. 25.

(1.) He asked, Is it I? to avoid coming under the suspicion of guilt by his silence. He knew very well that it was he, and yet wished to appear a stranger to such a plot. Note, Many whose consciences condemn them are very industrious to justify themselves before men, and put a good face on it, with, Lord, is it I? He could not but know that Christ knew, and yet trusted so much to his courtesy, because he had hitherto concealed it, that he had the impudence to challenge him to tell: or, perhaps, he was so much under the power of infidelity, that he imagined Christ did not know it, as those who said, The Lord shall not see (Ps 94:7), and asked, Can he judge through the dark clouds?

(2.) Christ soon answered this question; Thou hast said, that is, It is as thou hast said. This is not spoken out so plainly as Nathan's Thou art the man; but it was enough to convict him, and, if his heart had not been wretchedly hardened, to have broken the neck of his plot, when he saw it discovered to his Master, and discovered by him. Note, They who are contriving to betray Christ, will, some time or other, betray themselves, and their own tongues will fall upon them.
(from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.)

Those who who see such strong condemnation by Christ and only ask "Is it I" when brought to it by others, are just like Judas.

Knowing that, it is prudent for each of us to fully examine ourselves (2 Cor 13:5) to see whether we be in that condition or not.


BGTF

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

BGTF: As far as affecting salvation, it can't do that, but one can end like Solomon/Hezekiah, or one can end like Paul/David. Those with greater love for Christ seek to end like Paul/David.

As per Christ in Rev 3:16-17 most of those in visible Christendom today are vomitable unsaved pretenders. There is no nation more prosperous than the US, and hence no nation where Christ will find more vomitable unsaved pretenders.

HP: Even if I accept your answer, there is one glaring problem. When OSAS is preached everyday and everywhere one turns, the church is the one guilty of creating the false professors you mention here as ‘vomitable unsaved pretenders.’ I don’t blame the pretenders as much as I blame those claiming to be shepherds when in fact, other than something being accomplished in spite of their instruction, are piping a false message to their listeners that proclaims if you say these simple words after me and believe in your heart that Jesus died for you, you are saved and OSAS. The doctrines of OSAS is much to blame for the problem you are witnessing.

Now, how are we going to convince these deceivers that they have not really been born again and arew still in need of a heart transformation? I am afraid that most have received an innoculation of just the right potency of error to keep them from ever understanding the truth or the condition they souls are in.

 

[Eliyahu]

Yes, we live in a horrible world where the lukewarm believers swarm with millions of fake Christians. Their meals are Freedom, Love, Easy Belief, Pre-tribulation Rapture, Wealth from the money-god, pleasure-god, power-god, etc. while enemies are making good preparations for the next stage of Great Tribulation.

I don't think OSAS contributed to the Lukewarmness.
However, I believe that the idea of Pre-trib Rapture makes believers idle away their time and prevent them from standing firm against the paganism and all the anti-christian movement.

Even today, there are so many countries which prohibit the preaching of Gospel.

The whole situation is accumulating the wrath of God and thereby bringing the terrible, inevitable Judgment.

 

[steaver]

It is erronious to place prosperity in and of itself as a negative. Sex can be both good and bad. Fire can be both good and bad. Judgment can be both good and bad. Love can be both good and bad. It is not the money that corrupts the man, it is the love of money, the heart. David was wealthy but had a heart after God. We all must be careful and we all must discern between the good and the evil. God blesses individuals that others will be blessed. To those who is given much, much will be required of him.

God Bless!

ps. OSAS has nothing to do with this topic. Personally, when I saw the truth of OSAS in scripture it is then that I sold out to Jesus Christ. Before that I was just obeying because I thought I might get zapped! That's just my personal experience, others may need the threat of hell to keep them loyal.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[ByGracethroughFaith]

Yes, we live in a horrible world where the lukewarm believers swarm with millions of fake Christians. Their meals are Freedom, Love, Easy Belief, Pre-tribulation Rapture, Wealth from the money-god, pleasure-god, power-god, etc. while enemies are making good preparations for the next stage of Great Tribulation.

I don't think OSAS contributed to the Lukewarmness.
However, I believe that the idea of Pre-trib Rapture makes believers idle away their time and prevent them from standing firm against the paganism and all the anti-christian movement.

Even today, there are so many countries which prohibit the preaching of Gospel.

The whole situation is accumulating the wrath of God and thereby bringing the terrible, inevitable Judgment.

The pre-trib rapture is going to happen, the problem is that comparative to profession, so few will be missing, it will be very easily explained away. Here in North America, churches will still be full, sure there will be the odd seat empty here or there, but pastors will still be preaching, and Christ will have already come for His. At that point many will say "See, I told you that the rapture is post-trib", or some will buy into amillennialism, but either way they will be sadly mistaken.

Christ calls it lukewarm because that is what it is; having come short of new life, there is just enough inoculation to provide a false hope, and yet not an outright denial.

It is wise to go back in time to see how and what men preached. Compare it to what you hear today, and decide for yourself.

I posted some of these before, but they are very much worth the read.

From “The Godly Man’s Picture”
Reproof to such as are pretenders to godliness-Thomas Watson
http://www.fivesolas.com/watson/reproof.htm

The Almost Christian-George Whitefield
http://www.pioneernet.net/rbrannan/whitefield/sermons/WITF_043.HTM

Marks of a true conversion-George Whitefield
http://www.pioneernet.net/rbrannan/whitefield/sermons/WITF_023.HTM

Alive or Dead- J.C. Ryle
http://www.gracegems.org/24/Ryle_alive_or_dead.htm


Lastly, I challenge anyone who believes that Christ did not mean them, when referring to the ‘lukewarm’, to read this book. Because it is not a coddler type book, it is getting very hard to find. The place where I bought it from doesn't have it anymore, but these links still have it for now.

“The Almost Christian Discovered”- Matthew Mead
http://www.virtueinknowledge.com/Biblical Books - The Almost Christian Discovered.htm
http://worldcat.org/oclc/36499204?tab=editions

Review Here
http://www.apuritansmind.com/BookReviews/MeadMatthewAlmostChristian.htm


BGTF

 

[Eliyahu]

The pre-trib rapture is going to happen, the problem is that comparative to profession, so few will be missing, it will be very easily explained away. Here in North America, churches will still be full, sure there will be the odd seat empty here or there, but pastors will still be preaching, and Christ will have already come for His. At that point many will say "See, I told you that the rapture is post-trib", or some will buy into amillennialism, but either way they will be sadly mistaken.
BGTF

I do not want to hijack the thread. But I must tell you that the Pre=Trib Rapture is absolutely groundless and many are mistaken by it.

I know so many explanations by those claiming it as I have attended so-called Plymouth Brethen ( we deny any denomination name).
JN Darby, Eric Sauer, William Macdonald, etc so many people claimed it and I read those books about their eschatology, but I respectively disagree with them. The Bible rejects it more concretely if you read 2 Thess 2 and Rev 11, 12, Rev 7, etc.
Even today, our church people preach that they will depart this world before the tribulation, saying Bi-Bi to the world, or saying that Delta Airline hires non-christian Pilots to fly with Christian Pilots for the time of the Rapture as the pilots may be raptured.

REad Re 11:11-13 simply which shows the Rapture very clearly and there will be the Remnant believers glorifying God on that occasion. The Rapture will be partial as there will be Remnants and it will happen to the truly faithful believers who are almost in groggy status due to the persecution.

If the believers impending danger of the Anti-Christ, they would become much more diligent preparing for it, instead of being idle and lukewarm.

The others are well commented by Steaver.

 

[Matt Black]

Eliyahu, if you don't believe in a pre-trib rapture, then why do you Break Bread with those who do?

 

[ByGracethroughFaith]

I do not want to hijack the thread. But I must tell you that the Pre=Trib Rapture is absolutely groundless and many are mistaken by it.

I know so many explanations by those claiming it as I have attended so-called Plymouth Brethen ( we deny any denomination name).
JN Darby, Eric Sauer, William Macdonald, etc so many people claimed it and I read those books about their eschatology, but I respectively disagree with them. The Bible rejects it more concretely if you read 2 Thess 2 and Rev 11, 12, Rev 7, etc.
Even today, our church people preach that they will depart this world before the tribulation, saying Bi-Bi to the world, or saying that Delta Airline hires non-christian Pilots to fly with Christian Pilots for the time of the Rapture as the pilots may be raptured.

REad Re 11:11-13 simply which shows the Rapture very clearly and there will be the Remnant believers glorifying God on that occasion. The Rapture will be partial as there will be Remnants and it will happen to the truly faithful believers who are almost in groggy status due to the persecution.

If the believers impending danger of the Anti-Christ, they would become much more diligent preparing for it, instead of being idle and lukewarm.

The others are well commented by Steaver.

Eliyahu

Did you read the links? If so, are you alive or dead?

If you are alive, no matter what your understanding of eschatology is, you will not be here for the tribulation. If you are dead and remain dead until the tribulation, as per 2 The 2:10-12 you very likely will not have a second chance. With the Lord, now is always the day of salvation....


BGTF

 

[Eliyahu]

Eliyahu, if you don't believe in a pre-trib rapture, then why do you Break Bread with those who do?

Eschatology is only a small part of the whole doctrines. It is not essentail portion of Salvation, nor is the key truth of the church gathering. If we have to worship with only the people who share the same doctrines for all the issues, we may not find any place or church in the world.
Nobody in the world knows exactly what the future will be, how the interpretation of the whole revelation is.
I just tolerate many misunderstandings on the Eschatology but there are some clear points which tells me the partial rapture and even that in the middle of the Tribulation, and I see clearly some good portions of the truth on the end-times.

 

[Eliyahu]

Eliyahu

Did you read the links? If so, are you alive or dead?

If you are alive, no matter what your understanding of eschatology is, you will not be here for the tribulation. If you are dead and remain dead until the tribulation, as per 2 The 2:10-12 you very likely will not have a second chance. With the Lord, now is always the day of salvation....


BGTF

Sorry not to have read the whole links, but I thought the sites teach on the Almost Christians and so on.
I have already exposed my study on the partial resurrection as we read Re 20:4 and partial rapture in Re 11:11-13.

2 Thess 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

Is the man of sin revealed ?

The rapture is very clear in the Bible.

Re 11:
11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Who are the 2 witnesses, 2 Candlesticks, 2 Olive trees? Read the entire chapter of Zechariah 4. Three words are well explained there.


If you think you know the Revelation better than I do and want to educate me, please open up a new thread on the following condition:

-Don't bring any other references than the Bible-
( Don't rely on others' interpretation, just show your own interpretation.)

Otherwise, you do not know the truth very much but want to parrot the others' imagination.

One good example of others' imagination is this. They interpret the man on the white horse in Re 6:2 as Devil, then the exactly same expression in Re 19 as Jesus Christ. It sounds like saying that Jesus in Gospel Matthew is different from Jesus in Gospel John.

If you have your own interpretation, you may open up a new thread.

Don't misunderstand that I disagree with you on many things. I have enjoyed many of your own posts, and I like George Whitefield very much too. Your warnings are necessary and correct.

Finally, if the believers knew that they have to suffer a certain portion of Tribulation, then they would have become much more diligent in preparing themselves against it.

 

[Eliyahu]

Eliyahu

Did you read the links? If so, are you alive or dead?

If you are alive, no matter what your understanding of eschatology is, you will not be here for the tribulation. If you are dead and remain dead until the tribulation, as per 2 The 2:10-12 you very likely will not have a second chance. With the Lord, now is always the day of salvation....


BGTF

Sorry not to have read the whole links, but I thought the sites teach on the Almost Christians and so on.
I have already exposed my study on the partial resurrection as we read Re 20:4 and partial rapture in Re 11:11-13.

2 Thess 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

Is the man of sin revealed ?

The rapture is very clear in the Bible.

Re 11:
11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Who are the 2 witnesses, 2 Candlesticks, 2 Olive trees? Read the entire chapter of Zechariah 4. Three words are well explained there.


If you think you know the Revelation better than I do and want to educate me, please open up a new thread on the following condition:

-Don't bring any other references than the Bible-
( Don't rely on others' interpretation, just show your own interpretation.)

Otherwise, you do not know the truth very much but want to parrot the others' imagination.

One good example of others' imagination is this. They interpret the man on the white horse in Re 6:2 as Devil, then the exactly same expression in Re 19 as Jesus Christ. It sounds like saying that Jesus in Gospel Matthew is different from Jesus in Gospel John.

If you have your own interpretation, you may open up a new thread.

Don't misunderstand that I disagree with you on many things. I have enjoyed many of your own posts, and I like George Whitefield very much too. Your warnings are necessary and correct.

Finally, if the believers knew that they have to suffer a certain portion of Tribulation, then they would have become much more diligent in preparing themselves against it.

 

[BobRyan]

The two witnesses in Rev 11 are not the people living in the days of Christ or the days of Paul or the days of the Roman persecution.

They are the "two" olive trees and they represent the Word of God that was being obliterated by the RCC during the Dark Ages.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[ByGracethroughFaith]

Sorry not to have read the whole links, but I thought the sites teach on the Almost Christians and so on.
I have already exposed my study on the partial resurrection as we read Re 20:4 and partial rapture in Re 11:11-13.

2 Thess 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

Is the man of sin revealed ?

The rapture is very clear in the Bible.

Re 11:
11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Who are the 2 witnesses, 2 Candlesticks, 2 Olive trees? Read the entire chapter of Zechariah 4. Three words are well explained there.


If you think you know the Revelation better than I do and want to educate me, please open up a new thread on the following condition:

-Don't bring any other references than the Bible-
( Don't rely on others' interpretation, just show your own interpretation.)

Otherwise, you do not know the truth very much but want to parrot the others' imagination.

One good example of others' imagination is this. They interpret the man on the white horse in Re 6:2 as Devil, then the exactly same expression in Re 19 as Jesus Christ. It sounds like saying that Jesus in Gospel Matthew is different from Jesus in Gospel John.

If you have your own interpretation, you may open up a new thread.

Don't misunderstand that I disagree with you on many things. I have enjoyed many of your own posts, and I like George Whitefield very much too. Your warnings are necessary and correct.

Not that it hasn't been done to death a thousand times, but we can do it again.

Finally, if the believers knew that they have to suffer a certain portion of Tribulation, then they would have become much more diligent in preparing themselves against it.

This I disagree with, but we will get into it on the next thread

I hope to post it tonight.

BGTF