Testimony of Scripture

Frogman · Dec 22, 2007

Below is something very interesting, it is taken from Gill's Of the Being of God http://www.pbministries.org/books/gill/Doctrinal_Divinity/Book_1/book1_01.htm

But is also found in the words of the Apostle Paul:

Second Timothy 1:7-10

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
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3. The third argument, proving the Being of God, shall be taken from the works of creation; concerning which the apostle says, "the invisible things of God, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen; being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead" (Rom. 1:20). Plutarch, in answer to a question, Whence have men the knowledge of God? replies, "They first receive the knowledge of him from the beauty of things that appear; for nothing beautiful is made in vain, nor by chance, but wrought with some art: that the world is beautiful, is manifest from the figure, the colour, and magnitude of it; and from the variety of stars about the world." And these so clearly display the Being and power of God, as to leave the heathen without excuse, as the apostle observes; and as this, and other instances, show. Most admirable was the reasoning of a wild Greenlander, which he declared to a missionary to be the reasoning of his mind before his conversion; he said to him, "It is true we were ignorant heathens, and knew nothing of God, or a Saviour; and, indeed, who should tell us of him till you come? but thou must not imagine that no Greenlander thinks about these things. I myself have often thought: a "kajak" (a boat) with all its tackle and implements, does not grow into existence of itself; but must be made by the labour and ingenuity of man; and one that does not understand it would directly spoil it. Now the meanest bird has far more skill displayed in its structure, than the best "kajak"; and no man can make a bird: but there is still a far greater art shown in the formation of a man, than of any other creature. Who was it that made him? I thought myself that he proceeded from his parents, and they from their parents; but some must have been the first parents; whence did they come? common report informs me, they grew out of the earth: but if so, why does it not still happen that men grow out of the earth? and from whence did this same earth itself, the sea, the sun, the moon, and stars, arise into existence? Certainly there must be some Being who made all these things; a Being that always was, and can never cease to be. He must be inexpressibly more mighty, knowing, and wise, than the wisest man. He must be very good too, because that everything that he has made is good, useful, and necessary for us. Ah, did I but know him, how would I love him and honour him! But who has seen him? who has ever conversed with him? None of us poor men. Yet there may be men too that know something of him. O that I could but speak with such! therefore," he said, "as soon as ever I heard you speak of this great Being, I believed it directly, with all my heart; because I had so long desired to hear it."
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Why and how did this 'heathen' believe the gospel directly?
With all his heart?
Why had he so long desired to hear 'it'?

bro. Dallas:wavey:

Aaron · Dec 22, 2007

Frogman said:

Why and how did this 'heathen' believe the gospel directly?
With all his heart?
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Through preaching.

Why had he so long desired to hear 'it'?
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Because nature told Him there was a Creator.

Deacon · Dec 28, 2007

Good answers, Aaron.

Read Acts 17:22-31 KJV [LINK]

24 God that made the world and all things therein, …
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Then read: Romans 10 – 11:12 KJV [LINK]

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Study about Cornelius (Acts 10 KJV [LINK]), a devote gentile. who feared God and prayed for salvation.

Rob

skypair · Dec 28, 2007

Good response, Deacon!

I think the OP makes a connection between 1Tim and Gill that is not there -- the connection of salvation through election. 1Tim speaks of PURPOSES of God after salvation -- Gill speaks of revelation of God unto salvation.

skypair

Frogman · Dec 28, 2007

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts 17:22-31 &version=9

Acts 17:22-31 (King James Version)

King James Version (KJV) Public Domain

22Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
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Verse 27 declares to all hearers 'that they should seek after the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, (emphasis mine)

they cannot and will not seek after him otherwise, that is without first having felt after him.

The OP states by the testimony of the so called ignorant that he had felt after the Lord, he did desire to seek after him, but he felt after him first just as scripture states, once again the testimony of scripture is clear.

This man heard the preaching and believed the preaching having already felt after the Lord. He did not hear and believe from a carnal mind, through the spirit of man's will.

Now Romans 10 and Cornelius bare the same testimony. At what time does Romans 10 declare an unregenerate person hears and believes the gospel?

Where does scripture say God hears the prayers of a unregenerate sinner? Cornelius is just like the 'heathen' in the OP.

bro. Dallas:wavey:

Frogman · Dec 28, 2007

Skypair,
I think you imagine the doctrine of Free Grace to make election the cause of salvation. It does not nor do the believers of Free Grace make such connection.

Salvation is all of Grace from beginning to end.

the OP makes the connection between prior regeneration (immediate spiritual regeneration) and the ability to hear and believe the Gospel.

Let me ask you a question:

Do you believe the gift of tongues and prophecy are present today?

I do not, many believe this belief is necessary, in view of many who believe these gifts are present today call their churches 'full gospel' churches.

What part of the 'full gospel' separates my eternal life in Christ from their own? Therein you will find the doctrines of man.

bro. Dallas:wavey:

Deacon · Dec 28, 2007

Who am I to decide who is chosen or not?
Who am I to decide whom our Sovereign hears?

God holds all people responsible because he has presented us with a testimony of himself.
He already has reached out to us all.

I know that God drew me into his presence.
He was actively involved in my life even before my salvation.
He was not far from me yet for years I didn’t hear him.
But when the time came, I reached out and he saved me.

Rob

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