That debilitating disease - atheist darwinism: What say you?

[BobRyan]

On this thread - it was pointed out that the reason-debiiltating faith-destroying Gospel-contradicting disease "Atheist Darwinism" took a once-believer like Darwin and turned him into an atheist (agnostic at best) --

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=822209&postcount=12

On this thread we saw UTETOW falter then fail then totally implode in all areas of reason as argument after argument in favor of atheist darwinism was fully exposed at a level that even a child could quickly grasp!

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=823682&postcount=177
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=822073#post822073

He simply adopts a "rant and run" even when it comes to his own initiatives!

There we saw an entire series of links on this board exposing his complete failure to deal with facts when there is "no place to hide".

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On this thread and post UTEOTW claims that he is not uniquely failing to show logic and reason - he states here that there are a number who privately indicate via PM that they too would take his path.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=822498&postcount=170
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Here we see belief in atheist darwinism leading UTEOTW to deny Romans 1 regarding what is "clearly SEEN in the things that have been Made" by unbelieving pagans!! Romans 1

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=808250&postcount=96

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Was Darwin RIGHT to SEE that his atheist views lead away from truth, fact, light and the Bible?

Is Dawkins right when HE TOO shows how this contradiction between the Word of God and atheist darwinism " is CLEARLY SEEN" even by atheists?

Is Patterson right when he claims that faith in atheist darwinism is really a kind of "anti knowledge"??

When darwinist here run away from Romans 1, logic, reason and rational thought - do they SHOW the glaring results of having adopted faith in the system starts with "there is no God" - to the point that they strenuously object TO EVOLUTIONISTS that want to admit to seeing "CLEARLY things IN NATURE that reveal the invisible attributes of a higher intelligence"??

Would you be willing to add the lethal mix of atheist darwinism to the Gospel - to your church leadership, to any Christian expected to hold to rational thought?

Or are all these sources and examples merely "so many more data points to ignore"??

What say you?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Sadly - it appears from Romans 1 and from statements by people such as Dr Dawkins that pagans and atheist "see clearly" what compromised Christians clinging to atheist darwinism "anyway" say they "Fail to see".

Richard Dawkins is Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University. He is the author of many books including the international best-sellers "The Selfish Gene", "The Blind Watchmaker", and "Climbing Mount Improbable."

FROM : http://www.pbs.org/faithandreason/transcript/dawk-frame.html
Excerpt –

QUESTION: What is your response to the view that some Christians are putting forward that God is the designer of the whole evolutionary system itself?

MR. DAWKINS: In the 19th century people disagreed with the principle of evolution, because it seemed to undermine their faith in God. Now there is a new way of trying to reinstate God, which is to say, well, we can see that evolution is true. Anybody who is not ignorant or a fool can see that evolution is true. So we smuggle God back in by suggesting that he set up the conditions in which evolution might take place. I find this a rather pathetic argument. For one thing, if I were God wanting to make a human being, I would do it by a more direct way rather than by evolution. Why deliberately set it up in the one way which makes it look as though you don't exist? It seems remarkably roundabout not to say a deceptive way of doing things.
But the other point is it's a superfluous part of the explanation. The whole point -- the whole beauty of the Darwinian explanation for life is that it's self-sufficient. You start with essentially nothing -- you start with something very, very simple -- the origin of the Earth. And from that, by slow gradual degrees, as I put it "climbing mount improbable" -- by slow gradual degree you build up from simple beginnings and simple needs easy to understand, up to complicated endings like ourselves and kangaroos.
Now, the beauty of that is that it works. Every stage is explained, every stage is understood. Nothing extra, nothing extraneous needs to be smuggled in. It all works and it all -- it's a satisfying explanation.Now, smuggling in a God who sets it all up in the first place, or who supervises the details, is simply to smuggle in an entity of the very kind that we are trying to explain -- namely, a complicated and beautifully designed higher intelligence. That's what we are trying to explain. We have a good explanation. Why smuggle in a superfluous adjunct which is unnecessary? It doesn't add anything to the explanation.

(Note for the Reader: In the above quote Dawkins argues that Christian evolutionist think “God does something”, that “God contributes something” to the subject of origins. And on that point alone – Dawkins argues for the inconsistency and flawed logic of so-called-christian-evolutionism.

Christian evolutionist sometimes argue against Dawkins claiming that HE has made too much of a grandiose claim about what Christian-evolutionists think God is doing. In essence those Christian evolutionists argue that Dawkins has to HIGH a view of God!!

How sad that Christian evolutionists are prone to going to such extremes.)

Here we see a thread where UTEOTW tries the "lowered expectations of God" approach such that blind believe in fully formed living cells from nothing (as hoped by atheists) is to be believed OVER the Word of our Creator God not matter how improbable those atheist beliefs are!

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=822098#post822098

 

[UTEOTW]

I don't know why you keep mischaracterizing me as "running."

I told you clearly. Every point you have tried to make has been refuted.

Your deceptions, fallacies, plagiarism and falsehoods have all been exposed as the fiction they are.

I have repeated the refutations dozens of times in various forms.

You have been found to not even read posts before you respond.

You have been found to not even address the problems raised with your scripted rants. If you answer at all, it is always a strawman version of my argument and not the actual argument.

Your continued use of strawmen shows that caricatures you make of my arguments are all that you know how to knock over.

My actual argument, then, still stand tall and unrefuted.

You only can repeat your deiscredited arguments over and over and can never be brought to actually discuss facts without resorting to fallacious logic.

What you have characterized as "running" and other childish taunts is me telling that I am tired of us both repeating the same things over and over without you ever moving away from your fallacies and into the world of logic and facts. Since all you can do is stick with your fictional script, I am tired of the repetition. It does no good at all at this point to continue it. I can't imagine that you will ever have anything new to say, other than your sudeen need to taunt, nor that you will ever venture into the realm of facts and reasonable discussion. And I can't imagine that anyone is really paying attention at this point.

 

[Jim1999]

You, Bob, seem to have an all-consuming preoccupation with Darwin and evolution. No one else seems to be troubled with it. Do you have a secret yen to embrace it?

Why not give it a rest and get on with something more edifying and rewarding. Tell us about the Seventh Day Adventists who sold all they owned and gathered to await the predicted second coming of Christ in, I forget the year, was it 1914?

When He didn't show up, it was determined He came, but it was in the air...............oh my, what a theory!

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Eric B]

You got them mixed up with the JW's. They had a similar prediction with a similar "save" that year. The SDA's year was 1844.

 

[BobRyan]

You, Bob, seem to have an all-consuming preoccupation with Darwin and evolution.

I just saw a program from Coral Ridge Ministries - (Dr D. James Kennedy) entitled "The Root of the Problem" - where he is emphatic that this disease we call atheist darwinism provided the basis for the "super race" concept of Hitler.

So I suppose there is "one other" who recognizes the cancer within the body of the Christian Church.

Next.

 

[BobRyan]

Why not give it a rest and get on with something more edifying and rewarding. Tell us about the Seventh Day Adventists who sold all they owned and gathered to await the predicted second coming of Christ in, I forget the year, was it 1914?
Jim

I take It you too are a believer in atheist darwinism. How else could you be so bent away from fact and married to fiction as in the transparently glaring example above!!

Where were you when UTEOTW was floundering in his own failed arguments on those threads provided? Why didn't anyone from your camp save him from disgracing himsefl in blunder after blunder?!! You guys should at the very least have some sense of integrity - enough to have saved him from that horrible demonstration he put on.

 

[BobRyan]

I don't know why you keep mischaracterizing me as "running."

"Running" - defined as devastating point after devastating point raised against your failed and bogus rabbit trails exposing them so fully on this board that even a CHILD could easily master the discussion and STILL you came back with the vaccuous response of the form "I have no more to contribute so I am running away".

Frankly I am surprised that following a showing like that you have any inclination to post on those topics even if it is to just "rant and run" again.

BUT SHOULD you ever have an ounce of interest in the ACTUAL DETAILS that were repeatedly shown to debunk your non-truths - feel free to actually PROVIDE data - rather than more ranting vaccous claims that "you probably did well at one time".

I have no problem comparing the data - you on the other hand run away so often that the thread ends with me saying "UTEOTW where ARE you.....?" after posting a series of devastating points to which you had NO answer!!

 

[BobRyan]

AFter failing to even address the CONTEXT and CONTENT of your OWN selected quotes (as in the case of Patterson and Talk Origins) THOUGH it is EXPLICITLY pointed out to you - - you vaccuously assert "My actual argument, then, still stand tall and unrefuted"

I am sorry but that does fit the defintion of the term you used earlier -- "pathetic"

 

[Eric B]

I just saw a program from Coral Ridge Ministries - (Dr D. James Kennedy) entitled "The Root of the Problem" - where he is emphatic that this disease we call atheist darwinism provided the basis for the "super race" concept of Hitler.

So I suppose there is "one other" who recognizes the cancer within the body of the Christian Church.

Next.

Yeah, Kennedy, with his rabid conspiratorialism, and everyone against good capitalistic Christian America.
Meanwhile, people like him forget that racism was held long before Darwin, when people interpreted the curse on Cannan and blessing on Japheth as Japhetic superiority, Hamitic inferiority. (and conservatives like Kennedy all believe that AAmerica's past, when this type of thinking was widespread, and enforced by persecution, was a golden age of righteousness destroyed by those awful Darwinists, Marxists and Freudians). The Darwinists only came and interpreted the preexisting doctrine according to their new theory.

 

[BobRyan]

Here again we have evidence so blatant so glaring so transparent that a child reading this thread easily SEES IT!!

Notice the points raised in the first two posts? Notice the evidence from Darwin himself. Notice the evidence from Richard Dawkins -- NOT A SINGLE point dealt with so far by the post of atheist darwinist believers so far. NOT ONE!!!

Thus they SHOW ON THIS THREAD -- that they have no stomach for details or compelling response.

In fact BOTH posts from atheist darwinist believers highlighted total falsehood as the CENTER of their response.

Can the reader really not see such an obvious glaring fact NOW provided AGAIN on this thread as the believers in atheist darwinism sugggest? I assert that the reader sees it not ONLY on those threads but also sees it in the content provided AGAIN here in the data above in 9 short post sequences!!

The atheist darwinist cultists can not HELP but demonstrate the problem!!

 

[BobRyan]

Darwinists believe that the mutation-selection mechanism accomplishes wonders of creativity not because the wonders can be demonstrated, but because they cannot think of a more plausible explanation for the existence of wonders that does not involve an unacceptable creator, i.e., a being or force outside the world of nature. Philip Johnson

Oops! "oh yeah we denounce Johnson like we denounce D.J. Kennedy" ---

Forgot the vaccuous response mode thing is probably still turned on for the atheist darwinist faithful.

 

[BobRyan]

Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent. ~ William Provine

Evolution is the greatest engine of atheism ever invented. ~ William Provine

 

[BobRyan]

CHARLES ROBERT DARWIN stands among the giants of Western thought because he convinced a majority of his peers that all of life shares a single, if complex, history. He taught us that we can understand life’s history in purely naturalistic terms, without recourse to the supernatural or divine. ~ Niles Eldredge

For Darwin, any evolution that had to be helped over the jumps by God was no evolution at all. It made a nonsense of the central point of evolution. ~ Richard Dawkins

 

[BobRyan]

There is NO point in which all variables are known (as in the case of this thread) where believers in atheist darwinism can stand up to the data and deal with it intelligently.

This thread is just proviing that in living color as did the other threads pointed out in the first two posts on this thread!!

The question of the OP remains - do you really think that this "cancer within" can be ignored or will you along with D. James Kennedy admit that the nonsense of atheist darwinism has to be fully exposed?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The atheist readily admits to the SAME problem that the Bible believing Christian sees when it comes to the religion of atheist darwinism and its efforts to REDEFINE science such that it is enlsaved axiomatically to the doctrine "THERE IS NO GOD"..

I suspect there is a lot of intellectual dishonesty on this issue. Consider the following fantasy: the National Academy of Sciences publishes a position paper on science and religion stating that modern science leads directly to atheism. What would happen to its funding? To any federal funding of science? Every member of the Congress of the United States of America, even the two current members who are unaffiliated with any organized religion, profess to be deeply religious. I suspect that scientific leaders tread very warily on the issue of the religious implications of science for fear of jeopardizing the funding for scientific research. And I think that many scientist feel some sympathy with the need for moral education and recognize the role that religion plays in this endeavor. These rationalizations are politic but intellectually dishonest. ~ William Provine

 

[Eric B]

Oops! "oh yeah we denounce Johnson like we denounce D.J. Kennedy" ---

Forgot the vaccuous response mode thing is probably still turned on for the atheist darwinist faithful.

If that's aimed at me (as I was the only one who criticized Kennedy), I'm not a Darwinist. But still, it always annoyed me that some get so much into Darwin bashing, that they would actually throw the charge of racism at him, and ignore how the "Christian America" they uphold taught a master race long before Darwin, purporting to use the Bible. (BTW; People like Kennedy are the ones who would be more likely than anyone to pass a national Sunday law, in order to help restore our Christian heritage and fight Darwinism/secularism!)

 

[BobRyan]

The point is that you can not attack anyone who exposes the blunders of atheist darwinism as they are being "inserted" into the body of Christianity - just because "you also do not like something else they do" and have no consequence.

At some point - it is time for Christians to wake up!! I am obviously not a Pesbyterian and I have obviously posted against infant baptism etc - but that does not mean I can not fully support a RIGHT focus on truth and light EVEN if it comes from a Presbyterian!!

 

[Jim1999]

Sorry, Eric, if you are not a member of the seventh day adventist cult, you must be an atheist evolutionist (hic)..It is a given...Please learn to live with it.

Or do as we do, just learn to ignore it.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Eric B]

The point is that you can not attack anyone who exposes the blunders of atheist darwinism as they are being "inserted" into the body of Christianity - just because "you also do not like something else they do" and have no consequence.

If the "something else they do" is an untruth that hinders our cause, that should be opposed. Blaming everything on atheism as he does is totally false, as all have sinned. Instead of preaching the Gospel that all have sinned, but christ came to redeem all, they are preaching some form of "We're good, those people over there are bad" (whether it's ideological, racial, political, moral, etc)