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The Attribute of Divine Justice

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Ray Berrian, Dec 27, 2004.

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  1. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    'The absolute justice of God is the infinite moral perfection or universal righteousness of His own Being.' {A.A.Hodge, D.D.}

    Leibnitz said that ' . . . justice is goodness conducted by wisdom.'

    God would be unfair, since all have sinned, to send some to Hell and the remnant to Heaven. His garment of justice would be tattered if He would have this double standard.
     
    #1 Ray Berrian, Dec 27, 2004
  2. rc

    rc New Member

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    Ray,

    Do all of us deserve hell? That's the point that you have to start with... The humanistic philosophy of man spoils the basic understanding that man is a HATER of God and seeks nothing but evil all day long. There is none that does good Ray NOT ONE !

    You have to start there, don't you agree?

    From there, if God decides to do anything, if He pardons ANY, EVEN ONE He is just on doing so. He is an amzing God isn't He? We deserve death, not one heartbeat past our first sin, yet becasue of His amazing love for EVERYONE who HATES Him He allows us even to live THAT's love! But yet He chose to elect many (as many as the stars) to reveal His amazing saving grace too... How humbling... AND just...
     
    #2 rc, Dec 28, 2004
  3. GeneMBridges

    GeneMBridges New Member

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    Which is precisely what universalists argue. This statement condemns all particularism, not just Reformed soteriology.

    Why is this even an issue then, because justice is about what we deserve, not what we do NOT deserve? That single statement would seem to argue for universalism, because if taken to its logical end, it would declare that God is unjust and unfair for not saving anybody at all, regardless of being conditional or unconditional. If God was fair, everybody would go to hell.

    If you say that God MUST give everybody a chance to believe, you are saying God is under obligation to His creation. First of all, that contradicts His incommunicable attribute of independence, because, if something is DESERVED with respect to election as you assert in your view, you are saying God is dependent on man, not independent.

    You also move salvation out of the catgory of mercy into the category of justice. Perfect mercy must be UNDESERVED in order to be truly merciful.

    The Reformed position is not unjust at all, because all are condemned for their sins already. Nobody goes to hell that does not deserve to go to hell. Nobody that wants to enter the kingdom is left out of the kingdom, and all that enter are allowed and caused to enter voluntarily and as a matter of mercy, but not justice. If they were allowed to enter as a matter of justice then all would die in their sins.

    There is NO double standard at work in unconditional election, because, while justification is conditioned on faith, condemnation is conditioned on sin. Those that believe get what they deserve, salvation. Those that do not believe die in their sins, are getting what they deserve. Justice for sin is met for the saved at the cross in the atonement, in hell in punishment for the reprobate. The problem is that nobody believes already and, because of sin's effects on the mind and will, will not ever possess the desire to do so apart from direct intervention by God. We are all condemned already and will be condemend unless God intervenes.

    How can somebody believe if he does not want to believe? Why does anybody believe? If justification is conditional on faith, then people must believe to be justified. God must intervene. He thus elects those on whom He will have mercy and those to whom He will not show mercy. If He does otherwise, He is, by definition, playing favorites. To ground election in foreseen faith is to play favorites in the very way that James condemns favoritism that is based on intrinsic qualities in human beings! Thus God does not elect on foreseen faith or anything else in any person. The same is true of reprobation. He does, however, extend an active effective call to each person that He wants to save, or else they would not and could not believe. He simply passes over the rest. This is a passive act.

    However election to salvation and reprobation to condemnation, which are simply decrees in God's mind that are accomplished in different, opposite ways (as one is active, the other is passive) are not at all conditioned in man, who believes and does not believe for different reasons, and who all have different temperaments, etc. It is, instead grounded solely in God, who is perfectly righteous and just and who elects and reprobates completely without respect to foreseen righteousness or unrighteousness, wickedness or goodness, faith or disbelief in any one person. In short, election and reprobation are in God and a mystery, but they are purposeful and not arbitrary (for God is never random or arbitrary) and is not unjust at all, because there is no favoritism at all, no merit, nothing about the persons involved. Salvation is thus 100 percent mercy. Reprobation is 100 percent justice.
     
    #3 GeneMBridges, Dec 28, 2004
  4. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    That is why Ray, that sin is not a factor in man's salvation. NO MAN dies because of sin! That would make sin the judge and not God the Just One. Sin is not on the judgment throne....God is!

    Forget about sin! it is not a factor in man's salvation! The penalty of sin has been paid, thus robbing sin of its power over man!
     
    #4 Wes Outwest, Dec 28, 2004
  5. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    OH Hogwash rc, why can't you understand Atonement?
     
    #5 Wes Outwest, Dec 28, 2004
  6. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Gene M. Bridges,

    You said,
    I believe you are right in your statement above. We are speaking about the Justice of God, which means that He is fair in all of His dealings. There is equity in all of the Lord’s connections. There is an inescapable justice and severity in God’s justice.

    The justice of the Lord will blaze forth forever in the agonies and torments of the damned, because they refuse to bow in faith to His Lordship in Heaven and in the earth, for the reason that they refused Jesus [John 3:17-18 & I John 5:13]

    The lost will inherit Hell not because of an alleged decree, but because of their rejection or neglect of His saving benefits. Sinful men will forever feel His penal effects in the damnation of Hell,[Matt. 5:22,29,30]and will be reminded of times when they resisted the calling of God to eternal life in Heaven.

    The sins of the world were paid for in His atoning death. [John 1:29 & I John 2:2] This is a fact! Jesus has made all human sinners responsible for their sins.

    The Lord’s justice and evenhandedness will remain faultless and untarnished because He is God.

    All sinners deserve Hell; but all who believe live forever. [I John 5:12-13] Believing and trusting in the Lord is the pivotal issue and His justice will be based on this issue when we stand before His judgment throne.

    His Divine justice is being ministered from His throne through the providence brought into all of our lives through His angels, both in the lives of sinners and God’s people, not only in the matter of salvation and reprobation. He is the Author and Finisher of human history.

    Pastor Berrian
     
    #6 Ray Berrian, Dec 28, 2004
  7. prophecynut

    prophecynut New Member

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    Gene M. Bridges

    Wish I had your ability in "rightly dividing the Word of God." Such profound clarity of presenting the truth is rare. Would like your comments on Isa. 65:1 - "I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me; I was found by those who did not seek me....."
     
    #7 prophecynut, Dec 28, 2004
  8. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    You have it Prophesynut, you just may not be using it!
     
    #8 Wes Outwest, Dec 28, 2004
  9. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    The justice of God mandates that God is entirely proper and just in all His dealings with humankind and angels. The Lord’s justice is always in accord with His moral law. His law and truth in the Bible reflect His Divine standard toward His created beings.

    God is always righteous and impartial in His justice in relation to sinners and saints, because of His absolute moral perfection and holiness.

    Sin must be punished whether in the life of a sinner or that of a Christian. God is infinitely moral and demands right living in the lives of sinners as well as in the lives of the people of God.

    One of the moral laws of God is that He is impartial and just toward His created beings whether archangels, angels, or human beings. :cool:

    Berrian, Th.D.
     
    #9 Ray Berrian, Dec 28, 2004
  10. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Dr. Paul Enns says, ‘The justice of God is sometimes divided into several categories. The rectoral justice of God recognizes God as moral Ruler who, in imposing His moral law in the world, promises reward for the obedient and punishment for the disobedient.’ (Psalm 99:4 & Romans 1:32) “The Moody Handbook of Theology”

    The Lord’s justice is inscrutable and always flawless. He leads and is the Author of all directive justice throughout the world and in relation to sinners and saints. He is always fair in his deal with humankind. II Chronicles 19:7 reminds us that He is holy, ‘there is no iniquity in the Lord; neither does He have ‘respect of persons,’ meaning He is not fractional toward one person over another.

    In this one verse we have the attribute of the Holiness of God, and one aspect of the Divine attribute of the Lord’s Justice in relation to His created beings including archangels, angels and human beings. The Godhead has moral integrity; He never favors one person over another in matters of final destiny. [​IMG]
     
    #10 Ray Berrian, Jan 1, 2005
  11. Primitive Baptist

    Primitive Baptist New Member

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    Ray,

    I didn't know that there were that many categories that we had to study in order to understand the attributes of God. That's pretty convenient. Whenever one of God's attributes doesn't agree with your theology you just open another category.
     
    #11 Primitive Baptist, Jan 2, 2005
  12. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    I know that Calvinists like you seldom hear about the attributes of God's love and justice. Calvin had his own agenda.

    If you ever sat in a seminary classroom this topic of attributes of God would not be as much of a jolt to you as apparently has happened.

    Let some Bible College student take you aside and learn from them; there is still room for enlightenment, if you are not totally closed to the truths about our Lord. :rolleyes:
     
    #12 Ray Berrian, Jan 2, 2005
  13. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    The attribute of God’s Divine Justice means that He has immutably determined by His own eternal and essential righteousness to visit every sin with a proportionate punishment. The justice of God is an ultimate and unchangeable principle of His Being and nature. He is eternally determining and punishing sin because of its intrinsic evil in the light of His resplendent holiness.

    The difference between saint and sinner is that to the Christian there is no more condemnation, [Romans 8:1] though there may be discipline/chastisement. [I Corinthians 11:30-32 & Hebrews 12:5]

    The lost are always under the eternal judgment of the Lord,[John 3:18b,c & Romans 6:23]until they receive Christ. [John 1:12] Final separation of the sinner from God takes place at death. [Matthew 5:29-30] The judgment of lost sinners takes place in neither Heaven or on the earth as stated in Revelation 20:11-15. The dead will be made alive and will receive their exact justice at the hands of the Lord God. They will be judged by their works and sins. The word, ‘works’ in the Greek is {erga} meaning their deeds or doings.

    Neither sinner or saint will be able to offer a reasonable rebuttal to His infinite Divine justice and judgment. His decisions will be final! :(

    Berrian, Th.D.
     
    #13 Ray Berrian, Jan 3, 2005
  14. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    It is because of the attributes of Divine Holiness and Justice that Jesus’ work accomplished on the Cross makes Him the perfect penal substitute in the Presence of the Godhead above. Only the substitutionary death of Christ provides that which God’s justice demands and is the reality and basis of our gift of grace/eternal life to those who believe in Christ. [John 3:16]

    God has ' . . . made Christ to be sin for us, Who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.' [II Corinthians 5:21 & I John 2:2]

    Without Christ He could not 'impute righteousness' [Romans 4:6] to our account making us secure in our hope of eternal life.

    As Christians our Advocate and Intercessor is Jesus Christ. [Hebrews 7:25 & I John 2:1] If or when we sin Jesus is our Mediator [I Timothy 2:5] in the Presence of God the Father.

    Our relationship to God is maintained because He continues to justify us as the people of God. [​IMG]
     
    #14 Ray Berrian, Jan 4, 2005
  15. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    For your consideration.
    Rev. Berrian


    Torrey's Topical Index

    Return to Torrey's Main Index Easton's - Justice
    Easton's - Justice of God
    Previous topic (Justice) Nave's - Justice
    Justice of God, The



    Justice of God, The

    Is a part of his character - De 32:4; Isa 45:21

    DECLARED TO BE

    * Plenteous
    * - Job 37:23 Incomparable
    * - Job 4:1 Incorruptible
    * - De 10:17; 2Ch 19:7 Impartial
    * - 2Ch 19:7; Jer 32:19 Unfailing
    * - Zep 3:5 Undeviating
    * - Job 8:3; 34:12 Without respect of persons
    * - Ro 2:11; Col 3:25; 1Pe 1:17 The habitation of his throne
    - Ps 89:14

    Not to be sinned against - Jer 50:7

    Denied by the ungodly - Eze 33:17,20

    EXHIBITED IN

    * Forgiving sins
    * - 1Jo 1:9 Redemption
    * - Ro 3:26 His government
    * - Ps 9:4; Jer 9:24 His judgments
    * - Ge 18:25; Re 19:2 All his ways
    * - Eze 18:25,29 The final judgment
    - Ac 17:31

    Acknowledge - Ps 51:4; Ro 3:4

    Magnify - Ps 98:9; 99:3,4 [​IMG]
     
    #15 Ray Berrian, Jan 4, 2005
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