The Baptism with the Holy Ghost

Looking for the members here to explain their understanding of the Baptism with the Holy Ghost. I will give my own and leave the thread open to comments and criticism.

Point One: The first point I would make and ask those participating is that men were not Baptized with the Holy Ghost prior to Pentecost. As support for that statement I give...


Matthew 3:11-12
King James Version (KJV)

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


John the Baptist prophesies of Christ baptizing with the Holy Ghost. These Baptisms (with the Holy Ghost, defined as being gathered unto Christ, and with fire, defined as being "burned up with unquenchable fire," or in other words, Eternal Judgment) are said to follow John's ministry, Christ will come after John.


Acts 1:4-5
King James Version (KJV)

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.


This is spoken of the Lord on the Day of the Ascension, or in other words, when Christ returned to Heaven.

And we see that the Disciples of Christ are not yet Baptized with the Holy Ghost.


Point Two: The Baptism with the Holy Ghost is immersion into God in Eternal Union, not a subsequent event to the event of salvation in the individual's life. As support for that statement I give the teaching Christ refers to in Acts 1:4 (wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me)....


John 16:7-9
King James Version (KJV)

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;


The Comforter is the Promised Spirit the Lord refers to in Acts 1:4, and again we see that the coming of the Comforter must await Christ returning to Heaven. He, the Comforter, will reprove the world of sin, because "They believe no on Jesus Christ."


John 14:15-18
King James Version (KJV)

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


Here we see the eternal indwelling of God, where we see the Spirit is sent that He might abide with them (and us) forever, contrasted to Christ announcing His departure, the reason for their hearts being troubled (v.1).

We also see Christ stating "...I will come to you." He is speaking about His personal indwelling of the Disciples, and again, I would remind you this is a future event for the Disciples at the time of His teaching them.


John 14:20-23
King James Version (KJV)

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


Again, as John's prophecy of the Baptism with the Holy Ghost speaks of a future event, note here that being indwelt by God the Father (v.23), Son (vv.18, 23), and Holy Ghost (vv.16-17)is also future (vv.16, 18, 20-23).

The Disciples of Christ are not yet indwelt eternally by the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.


Point 3: The Baptism with the Holy Ghost is the moment men receive eternal life. As support for that statement I give...


John 7:38-39
King James Version (KJV)

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


Here Christ contrasts physical water with "living water," which represents eternal life. It is tied to the coming of the Spirit that is to be given (again, a future event) to them that believe on Christ. We also see that it will not be until Christ is glorified that the Spirit will be given. Coupled with Christ's teaching that He must leave, else the Comforter cannot come, we can be dogmatic that the Baptism with the Holy Ghost, hence the bestowal of eternal life through being immersed into God in eternal union...has not occurred in the lives of men yet.

As the final passage in which we see, without controversy, that the Baptism with the Holy Ghost is the moment of salvation, the moment one is immersed into God, I give you...


Acts 11:13-18
King James Version (KJV)

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


If you read the account of Cornelius' conversion, you will see that what Peter states here is true, the Holy Ghost "fell on them" while he was still...preaching the Gospel. Cornelius was a justified Old Testament Saint, but still needed...

...life.

To be specific, eternal life.

And that Eternal Life is only obtained by believing on Jesus Christ.

In this we see:

1. The "words" Peter spoke are the words by which men are saved. That is the Gospel;

2. Peter recalls the Word of the Lord (Acts 1:4-5) when the Holy Ghost "falls on them," and it is the Baptism with the Holy Ghost that he defines the event as;

3. Those who believe on Christ receive the Gift of God, which is salvation;

4. Even the circumcision (v..2) view the Baptism with the Holy Ghost as "repentance unto life," or in other words, receiving eternal life through believing on Jesus Christ;

5. The Baptism with the Holy Ghost is contrasted with being baptized in water.


So three primary points to address, and please address the Scripture given as support. If you feel they are used out of context, let me know.


God bless.

 

This is what Scripture teaches, that we are baptized with the Holy Ghost at the moment of salvation, which results in our being placed into God (and that means into the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) and God indwells us (and that means the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) on an eternal basis, which, as shown in the OP...wasn't taking place prior to Pentecost.

Not just Pentecostals and Charismatics, many among the Reformed, Protestant, and Evangelical teach that the Baptism with the Holy Ghost is a subsequent event, meant for the empowering of the believer. They confuse the Baptism with the Holy Ghost with the "filling" of the Spirit, which has taken place throughout Scripture. The Baptism with the Holy Ghost is taught by Christ to be a future event in the lives of the Disciples, who were often "filled" with the Holy Spirit for the purpose of ministry under Jesus Christ (preaching the Kingdom Gospel, healing, casting out demons, etc.).

It is true that the Disciples and several converts Baptized with the Holy Ghost spoke with tongues when they were Baptized with the Holy Ghost, but, the "tongues" were known languages, as we see in Acts 2:


Acts 2
King James Version (KJV)

1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.


One has but to read the rest of the account and they will see 17 languages represented (including the language the disciples themselves spake):


5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.


Both glōssa and dialektos refer to known languages, and are made synonymous in this passage.


God bless.

 

I have started a thread that is more relevant to your statements here, "Were Men Born Again Before Pentecost?"


God bless.

 

Welcome to the thread, and to the Forum, PastoralMusings, I hope your time here will be blessed and that you in turn will be a blessing to those here.

And this is one of the most important things to understand...what was promised in the Old Testament was only promise until fulfilled in the New:


Acts 1:4-5
King James Version (KJV)

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.


The Promise in view here is the Baptism with the Holy Ghost, which the disciples had heard of from Christ.

That is just one of the promises of God in the Old Testament, and we see the giving of His Spirit closely associated with Regeneration:


Ezekiel 36:24-27
King James Version (KJV)

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


Another promise was eternal remission of sins:


Hebrews 10:15-18
King James Version (KJV)

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


There is no further need of sacrifice (offering for sin) when one is forgiven in completion:


Hebrews 10
King James Version (KJV)

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.


Hebrews 10:14
King James Version (KJV)

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

We await being made like unto Christ (receiving our glorified bodies), for one:


2 Corinthians 5
King James Version (KJV)

1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.


Paul is actually desiring the Rapture here, because he makes the point "I don't want to be unclothed (without a physical body), but want to receive that body made by God."

God has created us (in Christ) for the specific purpose that we be glorified (given immortal, incorruptible bodies that we will dwell with Him in eternity in).

We also await the Millennial Kingdom (at least I do, hope to get to visit Ireland, my forefathers' land, at that time).

We also await the Eternal State.

This is true.

Again, welcome to the forum, may your time here be blessed.


God bless.

 

This is not a thread to bash Charismatics and Pentecostals, brother, let's keep it focused on God, not men. I'll take a Jesus loving soul winning unknown tongues speaker over a cold self absorbed cessationist any day, lol. Everyone is going to be in error on something, the question is, what are we doing with what we are getting right?


God bless.

 

You are not very clear in what you say, because here it seems you say the Baptism with the Holy Ghost (which is synonymous with being baptized into Christ because it is the immersion of the believer into God) was a "one-time event" and reiterate this here:

And here:

This statement nullifies itself. The fact is that it is mentioned more than once, takes place more than once, and is spoken of in many places in other terms, such as being in Christ, and being baptized into Christ.

This is true. And it is the same event as we being in God:


John 14:20-23
King James Version (KJV)

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


The indwelling of God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is synonymous with our being in Christ, and He in us.

The distinction you seek to make does not exist.

It most certainly is.

See the Lord make that clear in the passage above.

The Lord speaks of the yet future Baptism with the Holy Ghost:


Acts 1:4-5
King James Version (KJV)

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.


Being Baptized is receiving the Eternal Indwelling taught in both the Old Testament as well as by Christ (as shown in the passage of John above).

And us in the Spirit, as well as us in the Father and the Son.

Which is the same as the Spirit in us.

Acts 11:13-18
King James Version (KJV)

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Cornelius is saved when he is Baptized with the Holy Ghost.

He receives the Gift of God.

He receives...life.

Deny any of these points.

Then explain Cornelius.

The Baptism with the Holy Ghost is our being immersed into God, and there are numerous occasions where this takes place in the New Testament.

Now you contradict yourself, because you just said...

I wasn't alive in the first century, so my own immersion into God did not take place then, which makes at least three Baptisms I know of beyond the Coming of the Spirit at Pentecost.

I think most are straight on that.

Agreed.

More than once:


Matthew 3:11-12
King James Version (KJV)

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


Acts 1:4-5
King James Version (KJV)

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.


Acts 11:13-16
King James Version (KJV)

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.


Acts 19
King James Version (KJV)

1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


Paul asks if they have received the Holy Ghost. When they say they are unaware of the doctrine of receiving the Holy Ghost, he asks...

...unto what then were you baptized?

And it is the same baptism contrasted with the Baptism with the Holy Ghost as we see in our first three mentions.

Even if you deny this refers to the Baptism with the Holy Ghost, we still have three critical mentions of it, which is two more than the one you suggest.

John's Disciples were Gentiles? Can you show me that in the text?


God bless.

 

Not in this thread "we" don't. Start a thread and have at it, but try to stick to topic in this one.


God bless.

 

Gosh, so long, and no exegetical effort, so I think I will follow your tendency and just not read this.


God bless.

 

Just kidding, lol.

I wouldn't pass up this opportunity to teach on the Baptism with the Holy Ghost. What better way to show the truth than by showing the error?

It is.

The only other conclusion is that men "put on Christ" by being placed in a baptismal:


Galatians 3:26-28
King James Version (KJV)

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.


This is speaking of the eternal union we receive when we are made one with Christ.

I really, really, really wish you would exegete this passage.

What does the differing perspectives of the Gospels have to do with you saying the Baptism with the Holy Ghost is only mentioned once?

I have shown two other mentions that cannot be refuted and another that, if you keep the context, also shows the same thing.

This...

Galatians 3:26-28
King James Version (KJV)

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.


...also speaks of the same thing, our being immersed into Christ, into God...when we are saved.


Continued...

 

You do.

You keep denying that being in Christ is the same thing as Christ in us.

I agree, it is not baptism in water (which is what you think is in view in regards to being "Baptized into Christ"), it is the Baptism with the Holy Ghost.

I have shown you that the Spirit being given is synonymous with us being in God:


John 14:20-23
King James Version (KJV)

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


Yet you deny this very clear statement of the Lord.

So when you respond to this, quote the Scripture and show why the Lord isn't equating the Indwelling with the coming of the Spirit on Pentecost, which is, according to the Lord, when the Disciples were Baptized with the Holy Ghost.


Continued...

 

Sorry, no, it also happened when Cornelius was Baptized with the Holy Ghost.

It also happened with John's disciples in Acts 19, but, if you cannot see it in Acts 10 and 11, I doubt you will see it in Acts 19.

It is:

Romans 8:8-10
King James Version (KJV)

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.


In the Spirit is synonymous with the Spirit in us.

It's right there.

Immediately followed by...

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.


Here's a fourth grade lesson, my friend: if I said...

"My television stopped working, then remembered I the word of my wife, 'If you hit the off button the television will turn off.' "

Get it?




Continued...