The Bible Doctrine Institute

[Lukasaurus]

http://www.tbdi.org

I am going through their course now. This is a proper Bible college course. 8 classes per semester, with about 50-75 hours of audio to listen to per semester.

In regards to doctrine, it is

* Dispensational
* Pre millennial
* Pre tribulational
* King James Only

The course costs $50 to register, and $200 per semester. Total of 6 semesters.

This course is not for people wanting to get puffed up on knowledge so they can come online and ridicule people. It is for people who actually want to serve God - street preachers, mission workers, local church pastors, laymen - anyone.

Preachers include : James A. Lince (gone into glory, but he still teaches most classes via recordings), David Peacock, Greg Estep and several others

Classes include
Classes on all NT books (these comprise most of the course)
Classes on groups of OT books
Preparation and Delivery
Rightly Dividing
Church History
Local Church
Bible Cults
Problem Texts
Manuscript Evidence
Missions

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Are you aqware that they use a lot of Ruckman written material for textbooks. Most KJO's don't wish to be associated with Ruckman.:tonofbricks: He is to far over the edge.

 

[Siberian]

http://www.tbdi.org


This course is not for people wanting to get puffed up on knowledge so they can come online and ridicule people. It is for people who actually want to serve God - street preachers, mission workers, local church pastors, laymen - anyone.

What a strange thing to say. And which courses are for people who do not wish to serve God, but would rather get puffed up with knowledge so as to ridicule people online?

And this institute awards ThD's - why would they do that without the proper faculty credentials and accreditation unless it is indeed for those who wish to get puffed up? Why not just offer an advanced certificate?

 

[paidagogos]

Internal contradictions?

http://www.tbdi.org

I am going through their course now. This is a proper Bible college course. 8 classes per semester, with about 50-75 hours of audio to listen to per semester.

In regards to doctrine, it is

* Dispensational
* Pre millennial
* Pre tribulational
* King James Only

The course costs $50 to register, and $200 per semester. Total of 6 semesters.

This course is not for people wanting to get puffed up on knowledge so they can come online and ridicule people. It is for people who actually want to serve God - street preachers, mission workers, local church pastors, laymen - anyone.

Preachers include : James A. Lince (gone into glory, but he still teaches most classes via recordings), David Peacock, Greg Estep and several others

Classes include
Classes on all NT books (these comprise most of the course)
Classes on groups of OT books
Preparation and Delivery
Rightly Dividing
Church History
Local Church
Bible Cults
Problem Texts
Manuscript Evidence
Missions

In reviewing the TBCI web site, I found several disturbing things.
1. They appear closely associated with Peter Ruckman, who is a self-aggrandizing, bombastic heretic. Peter Ruckman’s violent temper, intemperate speech, prideful boasting and questionable lifestyle bring any association with him into question. I doubt that we would place much credence in someone who praised Charles Taze Russell as a great Bible student.
2. Assuming that they are pretty much a Ruckmanite school (if I am wrong, I will recant), these schools tend to be cultic—they praise themselves and their circle but they demonize everyone else.
3. The faculty/staff are mostly homegrown, which is one sign of a degree mill. I see no evidence of qualifications as Bible teachers. If they were instructed from Ruckman’s books, then they don’t know the Bible. IMHO, they are gulling the ignorant and unlearned into believing they are spiritual giants with outstanding academic qualifications. I see little praiseworthy in this.
4. The faculty/staff are festooned with doctorates from “less than wonderful” schools. Why do they accrue to themselves trappings of academia if they are mere humble Bible teachers who instruct the laity? On the other hand, they are obviously not great academics with impeccable credentials. There appears to be an internal contradiction here. They masquerade as scholars bearing capital letters, yet they inveigh against those “puffed up on knowledge.” I never thought there was virtue in ignorance. I am against pride and arrogance but I’m against ignorance, fakery and fraud too. It seems that there’s pride in those who decry it.
5. There are blatantly inaccuracies such as: “After two years at Midwestern, he was shocked to discover they rejected the King James Bible, and soon left.” Midwestern Baptist College, founded by Dr. Tom Malone, does in fact accept and use the KJV but they are not Ruckmanite. The Midwestern Baptist College web site plainly states: “The King James Bible is exclusively used at Midwestern Baptist College.” Why do people misrepresent other people’s positions? This is in the same vein as Jack Schaap’s diatribe against Pillsbury a few years ago.
6. Consider the self-aggrandizing in the following boast taken from the TBDI web page: “There is no doubt in the mind of the board of directors or the instructors here at TBDI that Dr. Lince was one of the greatest expository Bible Preachers this country has ever known.” Why do we have to make comparisons? Has anyone on this thread ever heard of Dr. Lince? I heard of him simply because I delve into a lot of esoteric trivia but I don’t think he qualifies as the greatest expositor in America.
7. A “proper Bible college course” is more than 50-75 hours of listening to tapes. Most of us get that much in Sunday School and church services each year. The rigor of the material and the activities along with the accountability are equally important. There appears to be no accountability except “on your honor.” Also, they appear to accept anyone of whatever belief upon payment of tuition and fees.

In sum, I find very little to commend this school. IMHO, it is another degree mill. Degree mills are no bargain at any price. They promise much more than they can deliver. On the other hand, I suppose they do teach some Bible truth and doctrine. And like the Apostle Paul, I must rejoice anytime the Word of God is taught whether is in cooperation or contention with us. The bottom line is that they perform at the Bible institute level but they award doctorates. IMHO, this is less than God-honoring.

 

[paidagogos]

Touche'

What a strange thing to say. And which courses are for people who do not wish to serve God, but would rather get puffed up with knowledge so as to ridicule people online?

And this institute awards ThD's - why would they do that without the proper faculty credentials and accreditation unless it is indeed for those who wish to get puffed up? Why not just offer an advanced certificate?

Very good points! I want to see the answers to these questions if the poster dares.

 

[Lukasaurus]

Why on earth would I dare.. or even care? And I simply posted information for people. Good on all you internet heroes. Please carefully note all my posts where I have railed on all the reformed colleges and warned everyone about their false doctrines....

It's not like I founded the institute.

what I find distressing is that if Ruckman is such a bad example of a pastor, why every other man on the planet must act the same way he does and call him a self-aggrandizing, bombastic heretic who said the founder of the JW's was a great Bible student (book, and page # please). If he is really nothing, why does everyone fear him?

God bless

Luke

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I hardly think that anyone hear has any fear of Dr Ruckman

We are called on by the word of God to expose false teachers however.

 

[Lukasaurus]

But who is being divisive? In all of this, I'm the only one that has been ridiculed, for respecting a man who believes the word of God is the word of God. I've not said a cruel thing about any other man, as far as I remember, nor attacked any man's character.

If there is a doctrine that Dr Ruckman teaches, then I would lovingly suggest that someone post some EVIDENCE that he is wrong, as well as the EVIDENCE that he actually teaches that doctrine. That evidence would include quotes and page numbers in context.

I got asked to do the same thing, so I don't think it is unfair to request it.

If you are told to correct false doctrine, why is there even a thread open about God using evolution? It's false. Delete it. Why are there calvinists and non-calvinists on the board? One of them is wrong (I happen to know which one).

If you are so set on correcting false doctrine, ban me, because I believe the KJ Bible is perfect, inspired, infallible, innerrant.

If it's a false doctrine to believe that God is sovereign enough to preserve His own word, ban me. Or call me on a technicality and say something like "we aren't banning you because you believe the Bible, but because you broke the rules". That's always a good one.

The only people being divisive on here are the people that just can't seem to hold their tongues about men. It's like they gleefully can't wait to type up the latest tidbit from Bob Ross or David Cloud about Ruckman.

Here is some meat for the sharks - Ruckman believes the antichrist will land in a spaceship and kiss everyone with big black lips. GO GO GO!

You strain AT a gnat (NOT OUT lol) and swallow the camel. What camel? THE FACT that at least 70% of people on this board think that God takes pleasure in damning souls to hell for eternity, where they will be burnt by everlasting flame, through no fault of their own. Misrepresentation? Eat it. And you whine because a man says that Genesis 6 brought about a new devilish race of extra terrestrial beings.

This board is full of heretics. Ruckmanism is the least of your worries.

God bless maam

 

[PilgrimPastor]

http://www.tbdi.org


This course is not for people wanting to get puffed up on knowledge so they can come online and ridicule people. It is for people who actually want to serve God - street preachers, mission workers, local church pastors, laymen - anyone.

Preachers include : James A. Lince (gone into glory, but he still teaches most classes via recordings), David Peacock, Greg Estep and several others

It looks like many of their staff fit the bill of being "puffed up" with knowledge; take note of the graduate degrees of the founder etc...

From their website:
Founder - Dr. James A. Lince B. Div., M. Th., D.D., Ph. D
President - Dr. David L. Peacock B.Div., M.Th., Th.D.
Vice President - Pastor Michael B. Wheeler B. Div., M. Th.

The King James Version is a beautiful translation but it is unwise to elevate it to the place of worship; God alone is to be worshiped, the Bible, KJV or otherwise points to us to Him as it is His perfect revelation to us in the original manuscripts...

But what do I know? I am a heretical Congregational Pastor holding to Baptist Distinctives who is all "puffed up" with knowledge...

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Here is an interesting article on this topic.

King James Version Only

Notes from A Cult Studies Perspective

N.E. Barry Hofstetter, © 2002

Some time ago I subscribed to an extreme KJVO list as part of my ongoing research for a course on the Cults that I teach at CUTS (supplemented with materials from published sources). Following are some notes on the subject. I would appreciate any feedback, since I will be using these notes as part of course, and perhaps later for other purposes as well. I should also note here that I am interacting primarily with the extreme position: there are more moderate advocates, which I mention by way of contrast below.

The extreme King James Version Only (KJO, KJVO often known as Ruckmanite, after Peter Ruckman, one of the modern exponents) position is primarily an irrational, non-biblically mandated fideistic position. If queried about his position, the KJO advocate will often retreat to the “it’s an issue of faith” argument. Now, many things are a matter of “faith,” but the precise nature of that faith is determined and limited by the Scriptures. The kind of faith which the KJO advocate maintains in the King James Version is in fact quite different from the type of faith which Scripture demands for belief in Christ, or the work of Christ, or practically any other content which functions as the object of the word group (both nouns and verbs) translated by the English word. This KJO faith, in fact, amounts to a redefinition of the term.

Is the KJO movement a cult or cultic in its nature? In the extreme aspects of the movement, I am afraid that it shows definite cultic symptoms. Among these symptoms:

A very strong “us/them” mentality. Not only is it necessary to confess the KJV as the only possible text, but one must agree with the precise formulations that the movement uses to strengthen its beliefs. Those who simply prefer the KJV, or who think it is a superior translation, or who feel that it represents the best possible underlying manuscripts, are not true KJO, and are thus excluded from the flock. This “us/them” mentality is underscored by often abusive language that the extreme KJO advocates use to deride their critics, and even sympathizers, if those sympathizers find areas of disagreement.
As Douglas Kutilek points out in his article “The Background and Origin of the Version Debate” [in One Bible Only?, Roy E. Beacham and Kevin T. Bauder, eds. (Grand Rapids: Kregel, 2001), p. 44ff] the modern KJO movement is one which has a definite genesis, and whose growth and ideas may be traced with a fair amount of accuracy. For those of us who have made a study of the way belief in cults begins and is enforced, Kutilek’s article is a fascinating one, for it fits the cultic development pattern perfectly. The KJO movement started with misinformation, which was then picked up by others, who expanded on this misinformation and added to it. Within a short period of time, those committed to the movement quickly developed strategies for reinforcing the belief patterns, and for excluding those who do not hold to those patterns. This type of self-perpetuating “cycle of discourse” is a standard cultic feature.
As a development of this, one finds that practically anyone who does not so confess the KJV is not a true believer, and that individual’s salvation then comes into question. Some of the most extreme advocates openly state that there is no salvation outside of the AV1611, thereby providing a restriction to faith completely foreign even to the very version in which they confess their faith. In some cases, but not all, certain doctrines seem also to be a part of the KJVO advocates belief system, including belief that all persons will be resurrected as 33 year old males, and a fairly strong undercurrent of classic racism. Hermeneutically, the KJVO advocates are as skilled as any cultist in selective misquoting of Scripture, and in misrepresenting historical and theological data in presenting their case.

 

[Mr. E]

Educated "heretics" ???

Hi Lukasaurus ...
Just an observation; the term "heretic" seems to be slung around loosely on this board and I'm not sure it's relevant in a discussion forum about colleges and schools. I'm not a moderator, but let's cool down a bit here and not be so quick to judge and falsely acuse the majority of heretical beliefs. For your benefit, I have included a definition of the word.

Heretic- anyone who does not conform to an established attitude, doctrine, or principle. (Dictionary.com, 2008)

In peace.

 

[Lukasaurus]

Why don't you make a thread about it in debate, instead of filling this one?

 

[Mr. E]

Why don't you make a thread about it in debate, instead of filling this one?

I'm sorry, does it frustrate you when someone respectfully asks you to refrain from false accusations? Perhaps you only want to read responses and opinions that agree with your position. Life would be so much easier this way. Your witness of the Gospel falls on deaf ears with an argumentative and combative approach. Try a little love, brother!

 

[Lukasaurus]

Believing the KJB is not the gospel...

As for love, perhaps the men who called Dr Ruckman a jerk (not in this thread) should lead by example. If they think he is a jerk for his name calling, it doesn't say much about them now does it?

I'm not the one being combative here. I posted the College I am studying through, but all the white knights rode on in and valiantly posted about how much they hate Ruckman, warning me about all his heresies, like believe the King James Bible is perfect, like I didn't already know. In order to do the course, you have to buy Ruckman's books, so I was pretty much aware of it.

I did post a bit of a cheeky remark, but only because the day I posted it, I was told that my beliefs weren't supported by any men that are considered "scholarly". I was in a foul mood and shouldn't have let it affect my post.

God bless

 

[Mr. E]

Hi Lukasaurus,
Thanks for the reply, I can understand how you feel. I wish you well in your studies. :thumbs:

 

[Siberian]

I'm not the one being combative here. I posted the College I am studying through, but all the white knights rode on in and valiantly posted about how much they hate Ruckman, warning me about all his heresies, like believe the King James Bible is perfect, like I didn't already know.

God bless

I think even you could re-read your posts and see that you were indeed being combative (mostly after your op, when negative comments were made about this institute). If you do not appreciate hearing opinions about that school (or about Dr. Ruckman) , then you probably should not have posted it.

 

[paidagogos]

Peter Ruckman

Why on earth would I dare.. or even care? And I simply posted information for people. Good on all you internet heroes. Please carefully note all my posts where I have railed on all the reformed colleges and warned everyone about their false doctrines....

It's not like I founded the institute.

what I find distressing is that if Ruckman is such a bad example of a pastor, why every other man on the planet must act the same way he does and call him a self-aggrandizing, bombastic heretic who said the founder of the JW's was a great Bible student (book, and page # please). If he is really nothing, why does everyone fear him?

God bless

Luke

The life, teachings and reputation of Peter Ruckman is well known among American Fundamentalists. There is no refutation or contention as to the veracity of these accusations. Thus, we have Biblically repudiated him and his doctrine.

1 Timothy 5:19-21 (King James Version)

19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.

20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

Titus 3:9-11 (King James Version)

9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

 

[rbell]

This board is full of heretics. Ruckmanism is the least of your worries.

God bless maam

Well...that about wraps up your posting here, right? I mean, since we're all heretics and all, and you shouldn't want to associate yourself with such rampant darkness...


...I can only assume that any further postings by you on this board constitute disobedience.

 

[michaelbowe]

http://www.tbdi.org

I am going through their course now. This is a proper Bible college course. 8 classes per semester, with about 50-75 hours of audio to listen to per semester.

In regards to doctrine, it is

* Dispensational
* Pre millennial
* Pre tribulational
* King James Only

The course costs $50 to register, and $200 per semester. Total of 6 semesters.

This course is not for people wanting to get puffed up on knowledge so they can come online and ridicule people. It is for people who actually want to serve God - street preachers, mission workers, local church pastors, laymen - anyone.

Preachers include : James A. Lince (gone into glory, but he still teaches most classes via recordings), David Peacock, Greg Estep and several others

Classes include
Classes on all NT books (these comprise most of the course)
Classes on groups of OT books
Preparation and Delivery
Rightly Dividing
Church History
Local Church
Bible Cults
Problem Texts
Manuscript Evidence
Missions

I have found several issues with such a statement. The first would be the length of each course. Normally, a semester is 16 weeks or Liberty University divides the semester into 8wk minimesters. So the lack of class time raises an large flag. Then the little amount of tapes or lecutres. One could find such by listening to one sermon a week. Essentially, it is a weak course.

As regards to your comment, why state it? The school offers a "degree" program, so obviously you want some credit for the work you have done. If this is a claim the school makes, then why charge someone for the course? I do realize the cost is minimal, but why waste minimal money that can be placed elsewhere. The doctrines are wonderful doctrines, but there is a difference in being indoctrinated, and learning to interpret the Bible, and following the doctrine therein it.

 

[Lukasaurus]

I have found several issues with such a statement. The first would be the length of each course. Normally, a semester is 16 weeks or Liberty University divides the semester into 8wk minimesters. So the lack of class time raises an large flag. Then the little amount of tapes or lecutres. One could find such by listening to one sermon a week. Essentially, it is a weak course.

As regards to your comment, why state it? The school offers a "degree" program, so obviously you want some credit for the work you have done. If this is a claim the school makes, then why charge someone for the course? I do realize the cost is minimal, but why waste minimal money that can be placed elsewhere. The doctrines are wonderful doctrines, but there is a difference in being indoctrinated, and learning to interpret the Bible, and following the doctrine therein it.

Well friend, like most semesters, these are 16weeks long. I have 5 months to complete all the course requirements of each semester, which, like I said, involves listening to anywhere from 50-75 hours of audio, while completing essays, writing sermons (one per week for 16 weeks), and still keeping my normal job so I can support my family. so.. if you can get through 50-75 hours of audio in 16 weeks by listening to one sermon a week.. wow.

Each semester has 8 courses in it (I didn't list all the courses above. Most of them are courses on NT books).

Little amount of tape or lectures? The course on Rightly dividing was 12 hours long, so it took me essentially 12 evenings to listen to the material, plus a lot of extra time to read the books required.

The lack of class time is a good thing for me. Seeing as I am in New Zealand, and the physical school is in Florida, I'll have a hard time. But, the audio is recorded FROM classes. The preachers are speaking to real students. It's not just a bunch of sermons they have stuck together.

So don't say it is a weak course, when I am putting a lot of effort and time into it. It's a guided Bible study, of each book, not indoctrination.

Brother, get your facts right before you so valiantly ride on in on your white horse, bearing the flag of "false doctrine correction".

God bless

PS I didn't intend to post anymore on this board, but I felt the facts needed to be corrected here.