The Biblical Doctrine of Condign Merit

*post deleted as unregistered members may not post. Please ask your friend, if he is not a previously banned member, to join with his own account* ~~Gina

Someone asked me to post that since I have an active account with baptistboard.com

[ March 15, 2004, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: Gina L ]

 

Back so soon Adam?

 

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Romans 3:10-12 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

God does not reward good works at all. They are as filthy rags in his sight. There is none that does good, no not one.
The only thing that God looks upon is whether or not you are covered by His blood. The Catholic heresy of John 3:5 referring to baptism shows a complete misunderstanding of salvation, and again points to a work of man that saves. Man's works are as filthy rags and can never save. Only faith in the sacrifice of Christ can save. Your works count for nothing.
DHK

 

From the tone of the writing and the level of scholarship, my guess would be Carson Weber. Am I close??

 

Is he one of the banned ones?
Then it is not right that anything he writes (since the suthor requested it be posted here)should appear on a board he has been banned from. And I don't think it right for Adam to post it if the author has been banned.

 

CONDIGN MERIT

 

I've never read about this concept before, at least not in these terms. Thanks for the education!

 

It was from a website that the member asked me to link to and post part of it. It wasn't Carson.

But your right. I'm not playing an inbetweener anymore.

(ask webmaster to reinstate you after 6 months or so, they usually are pretty nice)

[ March 16, 2004, 01:47 AM: Message edited by: Brother Adam ]

 

Thanks Adam,

It is frustrating to try and debate a person who won't or can't show his face in the fray!

Sounds like an educated individual, I look forward to hearing from him!!

 

Please harmonize those thoughts with the following:


But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you (Matt. 6:3-4).

For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done (Matt. 16:27).

But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked (Luke 6:35).

...the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free (Eph. 6:8).

But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous (Luke 14:13-14).

 

T2U,
The verses you quote are relative to a Christians good works. Every Christian is expected to do good works.
Condign merit has to do with salvation, not the good works of a Christian. We do not work for our salvation. There is no amount of work that you can do for your salvation.
"For by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast."
DHK

 

Yes, the verses I quoted are relative to a Christian's good works. It was in response to your statement that God does not reward good works at all.

Are you retracting your statement?

No, condign merit refers to an action that has a promised reward. It is not specific to salvation.

BTW, a little off topic, but is it possible to be saved if own does not have good works?

 

DHK, you didn't exactly address my question as posed.

Is it possible to be saved if one does not have good works?

I understand that works alone will not save you.

I understand that we must have faith in Christ and accept His sacrifice.

But is it possible to be saved if one does not have good works?

A simple yes or no will do.

 

But is it possible to be saved if one does not have good works?
Yes, the thief on the cross was.

 

How do you harmonize that with Matthew 25:31-46 ?

The Son of Man Will Judge the Nations
31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy[3] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34Then the King will say to those on His right hand, "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, "Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40And the King will answer and say to them, "Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.'
41"Then He will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'
44"Then they also will answer Him,[4] saying, "Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' 45Then He will answer them, saying, "Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

 

First, the passage says that He is coming to judge the nations, not individuals. It has nothing to do with a person's individual salvation, or relationship with Jesus Christ.

Secondly it is still a future event. It has to do with prophecy. Today is the age of grace. When the rapture occurs, the age of grace will cease. Christ will no longer extend his hand of mercy to be your Saviour; then He will be your judge.

This is an event that is held after the Tribulation Period at the beginning of the Millennial Kingdom. Notice the third personal pronoun used throughout "they." it is not on an individual basis, but He is dealing with nations.

He speaks of His throne. I believe this throne is on earth, as the earthly scene is on earth when he judges the nations.

He speaks of the least of "His brethren," which I believe to be the Jews. Those nations which were not anti-semetic, but friendly to the Jews (the brethren of Jews, He will welcome into the Kingdom of Heaven on earth; those who were not friendly to the Jews He will not. This is at the end of the Tribulation Period. It has nothing to do with the personal salvation of any person. The saved will all have been raptured seven years before that time.
DHK

 

Actually it says that He gather the nations before Him. Not that persons of a particular nation will be judged as a nation.

You are reading into the text to fit your preconceived notions.

It is interesting that where Jesus is saying that when you do for others you actually do for Him, you see nothing having to do with an individual's relationship with Jesus.