The Catholics link to Idolatry from Ancient Baylon

From the same article you used as a source:

Catholics do not worship Mary. They do show her great respect and honor for her role in salvation history, however. The Bible is clear about this, Father Linsky said. "We worship God alone. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Him alone shall you adore. Him alone shall you bow down in front of because worship is for God and no other. The Bible tells you, 'I am a jealous God.'

"So brothers and sisters, if you leave here and you have the foolish temerity to tell someone we came to the Catholic Church to worship Mary, you are wrong. But you did come this day to give her the great veneration and the respect that she deserves."

 

If that were actually the way it worked, there would be only one Protestant church, not umpteen thousand. That's why we rely on the pillar and foundation of the truth to guide us in truth.

I'm sure the Babylonians prayed also. And worshipped in special worship buildings. And made music in their worship. And had books of holy writings. Doesn't that disturb you one bit?

You want to know the connection? The connection is that we were made to worship God. It's in our nature. The Babylonians were simply expressing their human nature. They just hadn't been told of the one and only proper object of worship. Catholics have been told of God, the one and only proper object of worship. In fact, it was Catholics who told you folks. That's the connection.

 

Does it bother me?

No. You are making superfical comparisons.

Catholics do not confuse statues with idols.

No Catholic believes that a statue is a god.

This thread is just another rehash of the same old tired claim that Catholics worship idols.

Many Christian beliefs can be found in ancient pagan beliefs. Does that make them the same?

 

GraceSaves,

If those who follow Rome do not worship Mary,why would the Pope himself speak of "Marian Worship"?:

At the moment that Jesus entrusts his mother to St. John, "it is possible to
understand the authentic meaning of Marian worship in the ecclesial community
... which furthermore is based on the will of Christ.("Vatican Information Service",May 7,1997).

http://www.cin.org/archives/cintuus/199705/0003.html

In His grace,--Jerry

 

Yes, it prohibits the worship of them as strange gods. I, as a faithful Catholic Christian, have yet to worship any statue as if it were God. So sorry.

I see. So the Holy Spirit led you to read his heart like this, and determine if he is worshipping or not? Friend, that is not the Holy Spirit. That is your personal judgement of another actions, and calling him a liar. In fact, if one claims to not be worshipping something, how can he truly be doing it? When Peter denied knowing the Lord, was he worshipping him? How can one disown something and yet worship it at the same time?

Veneration is honor, not adoration.

I wouldn't participate if I wasn't certain that I was acting in accordance with the will of God.

God commanded the Israelites to make a golden ark, with large golden cherubim on top. It was carried on the shoulders of men as they paraded around the city of Jerhico, striking fear into the hearts of the enemy. Catch the drift?

Unless we are worshipping false Gods, you have no argument. And we aren't, so you don't.

I went to the link, and it provided Scriptures and commandeded to have "no strange gods before me." I see no ommition, only a lie on your part. I am not confused nor ignorant of the full commandment of God and its meaning.

The Babylonians believed those statues TO BE GODS. We do not, and thus the distinction is destroyed at this point.

The praise of any saint is because of the goodness of God, not because of the saint. It is praise of the one true God, in the same way is saying, "THANK YOU GOD FOR THIS GREAT PLANET YOU HAVE GIVEN US!" Likewise we praise God for the heroes of the Church that He has given us as role models to point us continually to His Son, Jesus Christ.

If you believe a saint's feast day is devoid of worship of God, you are sorely mistaken; it is filled to the brim with praise for God.

No, he said Heaven, and earth, and below the earth. So I guess Mount Rushmore is out of the picture too. Don't dare look upon it with awe, because you're worshipping a false God! Graven images are not to be used as idols; graven images themselves are not evil, or else God was condemning art.

Why did you omit the whole book of Baruch? I thin you're hardly in a position to talk about ommition.

Am I mistaken? Did God ACTUALLY number them in Scriptures? Oh, no, I was right: He did not. The numbering for 1/2 and 9/10 are arbitrary, because if you are having no other gods (1), then you are having no strange gods (2). They are stating the same thing: you can only have one God.

 

Statue does not = graven image.

please. This isn't even worth an argument.

 

BROTHER ADAM!!!

Haven't talked to you in so long! I see Teresa online from time to time, but not you. Hope life is treating you well and the Lord is showering His blessings on you!

 

Just curious, if a "saved" politican or sports figure, etc., were to die, should we run aaround smashing all the statues, busts, and paintings of them?

For that matter when a "saved" person in your church dies, does everyone destroy all of the photos of the deceased? They are after all in Heaven, right?

[ November 19, 2003, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: trying2understand ]

 

Brother,

We look at the cross as a remembrance only. Carrying it in a procession does not change that. Reverence is reverence, regardless.

Further, you seem to say it's okay to do that with the Ark of the Covenant because God ordained it specifically to be done.

That leaves two choices:

1) God does not have a problem with the procession of images that represent Him and His glory, since they direct one's mind to God, or

2) God asked man to break the law that God set forth, therefore undermining the whole moral process. If the law can be broken simply because "God said so," then God Himself voids the law, and any yahoo can kill someone because "God said so," and you won't be able to argue it, because you believe God allows the breaking of His own law.

I'm betting on number one.

 

quote:
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A graven image is a statue and is then an idol when one treats it as did the Babylonians did. Again compare the Letter of Jeremiah to the practices of the Catholics.
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GraceSaves said --
The Babylonians believed those statues TO BE GODS. We do not, and thus the distinction is destroyed at this point.

Actually - Budhists Hindus ets all declare that their images "represent" those whom they pray to - something the Hebrews never did - but something the Catholics have adopted.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Dittos, Brother Adam! Nice to see you back. Same old same old around here!

 

I state again, the Hebrews and Isrealites who died in the faith were not yet in Heaven until the coming of Christ with His death and resurrection, which opened to the deceased the gates of Heaven. Those who had died are now in eternal joy with our Heavenly Father!

Bob bolded this portion because it is terribly worded, and it looks like it says something it doesn't (I had to reread it several times to grasp what he was saying).

Indeed, they did not make that distinction because there were no saints in Heaven, as I have pointed out. But this is not an either/or situation, but a both/and. We realize and adore the God who is the source of everything as well having the saints in Heaven intercede for us on our behalf. the "we must" was in regards to "making the distinction;" this surely follows from the grammar, although its placement was terrible to give it an improper emphasis.

And we do INDEED make this distinction, because there is infinite separation in the veneration of the faithful departed who are alive with the Lord in Heaven and GOD HIMSELF. ALLELUIA!