"the Christ" in the KJV

[natters]

Hi, this board looks like a busy place.

I have a question I've been wanting to ask, but I had to wait for my membership to be activated. In another thread I recently read where someone who used only the KJV said that "the Christ" in other versions was an indication of New Age doctrine. I was curious and did a search in the KJV, and an online Bible at http://www.blueletterbible.org said "the Christ" appears in the KJV 19 times. My question is: what do KJV-only people think of this, and why wouldn't this mean the KJV is also "New Age"?

Personally, it sounds to me like a silly argument against other Bibles in the first place, but I was curious enough to ask.

 

[Johnv]

Occurrences of "the Christ" in the NT generally are translated from the Greek "Christus", which means "the Messiah".

The English transliteration of the word was eventually adopted in lieu of the word "Messiah".

 

[natters]

Then why does it appear 19 times in the KJV. Does this make it "New Age", as some here have claimed about other versions?

 

[Johnv]

No, use of the term is not New Age. Just because some KJVOlater says so does not make it so. Consider the source.

 

[Dr. Bob]

The most accurate translation of ho christos would be "the Messiah".

But remember rule #3 given to the translators " The Old Ecclesiastical Words to be kept, viz. the Word Church not to be translated Congregation &c."

"Christ" was a commonly used word in many English translations prior to 1611 so would be one of those "ecclesiatical" words that were NOT properly translated (like baptize, church, etc)

NOT New Age. Where did you see that nonsense?

 

[DeclareHim]

Originally posted by natters:
Then why does it appear 19 times in the KJV. Does this make it "New Age", as some here have claimed about other versions?

No as other posters have said translating it "the Christ" is one of the most accurate ways to translate it. I'm no expert in Greek but I have Strongs Greek Dictionary. By the way welcome to the board.

 

[natters]

Dr. Bob said "NOT New Age. Where did you see that nonsense?"

I know it's not New Age, I am just trying to understand how a KJVonly poster here (I think it was Michelle) said in another thread that the NIV was New Age for using "the Christ" - but the KJV does the same thing. It seems to me like she is arguing against her own position, and I was hoping she would explain this.

 

[Lacy Evans]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
"Christ" was a commonly used word in many English translations prior to 1611 so would be one of those "ecclesiatical" words that were NOT properly translated (like baptize, church, etc)

9/10 times the MVs use the words baptize, church, and Christ. I guess all Bibles are "not properly translated"[SIC].

Evil rule #3!!

I've said it many times, this debate is not about versions. It's about who gets to pick. It's about who gets the last word. It's about who gets to look smart and be regarded as "the authority". It's about our inordinate desire to be ruled by a priestly class of men who "know".

Lacy

 

[dean198]

The Hebrew word which comes to us as Messiah, and its Greek counterpart Christos, which comes to us as Christ, both mean the Anointed One. The Greeks did not call Jesus 'the Messiah', but translated the meaning into their own tongue, so that in Greek it read 'Anointed' rather than 'Messiah'. I think we should do the same, and read, Anointed One. But then people may question 'when was he anointed, and what is the significance of it'?

Dean

 

[Lacy Evans]

Lookey what I found in an ENGLISH dictionary!!

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary

Christ : \Christ\, n. [L. Christus, Gr. ?, fr. ? anointed, fr. chri`ein to anoint. See Chrism.]

The Anointed; an appellation given to Jesus, the Savior. It is synonymous with the Hebrew Messiah.

"Christ" means "the anointed" in English!! So what a beautiful word to translate the Greek word "Christus"

Watch carefully:

Gr: Christus=The Annointed
ENG: Christ= The Annointed
Therefore Eng:Christ=Gr:Christus

Love Lacy

 

[Ransom]

natters asked:

My question is: what do KJV-only people think of this, and why wouldn't this mean the KJV is also "New Age"?

This is a classic example of KJV-only special pleading - i.e. a double standard. When a modern version says "the Christ," it's "New Age." But when the KJV uses it, it's "properly used."

What's the difference? Well, the KJV-onlyists say so.

 

[Michael52]

Originally posted by natters:
...
I know it's not New Age, I am just trying to understand how a KJVonly poster here (I think it was Michelle) said in another thread that the NIV was New Age for using "the Christ" - but the KJV does the same thing. It seems to me like she is arguing against her own position, and I was hoping she would explain this.
...
bold added

Go figure...

It seems one's arguments only need to make sense, if the basis of their argument makes ANY sense to start with.

 

[Michael52]

Originally posted by Lacy Evans:
It's about our inordinate desire to be ruled by a priestly class of men who "know".

 

[dean198]

"Christ" means "the anointed" in English!! So what a beautiful word to translate the Greek word "Christus"

Watch carefully:

Gr: Christus=The Annointed
ENG: Christ= The Annointed
Therefore Eng:Christ=Gr:Christus

Love Lacy

Not quite Lacy.....The Greek Christos came to us via the Latin Christus....another example of the Latin dictating the English translation. Yes it should be Anointed One.
Dean

 

[Dr. Bob]

Originally posted by Lacy Evans:
It's about our inordinate desire to be ruled by a priestly class of men who "know".

Glad it is NOT some bunch of unsaved baby-baptizing Anglican priests making the choices!

I believe in the priesthood of the believer. The believer should look at the Greek (can you imagine NOT teaching our church members basic Greek?) and see "christos" and be able to see that in English the BEST, the most ACCURATE translation is NOT a "transliteration" into a nebulous word like "christ", but rather ANNOINTED ONE.

I'm not trying to be a priest to any, nor are you, but am sure we should not rely on 1611 priests especially!!

 

[Anti-Alexandrian]

Glad it is NOT some bunch of unsaved baby-baptizing Anglican priests making the choices!

By what authority do you make this claim?

 

[HankD]

By what authority do you make this claim?

By the same authority as the KJVO high priest(s) and priestess(es) make theirs about "second inspiration" and "advanced revelation".

HankD

 

[Dr. Bob]

I am unaware of a single baby-baptizing Anglican priest that I know (I know a good number) who would even remotely claim to be "born again" in our basic evangelical definition.

All of them (my friends) would take the typical position of God's grace coming through the sacraments of the church.

How many Baptists or "dissenters" would have been in this group?

 

[HankD]

Here is the official CofE position concerning water baptism:

From the 39 Articles of Religion:

27. Baptism
Baptism is not only a sign of profession and a mark of difference by which Christians are distinguished from those who are not baptized. It is also a sign of regeneration or new birth, through which, as through an instrument, those who receive baptism in the right manner are grafted into the church, the promises of the forgiveness of sin and of our adoption as sons of God by the Holy Spirit are visibly signed and sealed, faith is confirmed, and grace is increased by virtue of prayer to God. The baptism of young children is undoubtedly to be retained in the church as that which agrees best with Christ's institution.

So, the baptism of "young children" (including infants) results in them being "grafted into the Church".

HankD

 

[Lacy Evans]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
I believe in the priesthood of the believer. The believer should look at the Greek (can you imagine NOT teaching our church members basic Greek?) and see "christos" and be able to see that in English the BEST, the most ACCURATE translation is NOT a "transliteration" into a nebulous word like "christ", but rather ANNOINTED ONE.

"Christ" is a "nebulous term"? Man was I ever messed up. Please send me a copy of the DBV (Dr. Bob Version)as soon as they are printed.

I can't imagine preaching through 3 or 4 languages to show how the English word "Christ" means "Annointed One". I tend to question the motive of someone who would make an English speaking congregation jump through hoops like that.

You see the Greek word "Christus"(Transl[iter]ated "Christ" in English) means "Annointed One" so the KJV translators, who were nowhere near as smart as me, really messed up when they chose the nebulous English word "Christ" which also means "Annointed One" in an English dictionary. blah blah blah!


He either:
A) Thinks his "interpretation" is more accurate and important than the KJV (and MV) scholars."
B) Likes to look smart.
C) Likes to have us rely on him to give us the "deeper" stuff.
D) Learned to preach like that at cemetary and is monkey-doing his esteemed teachers.
E) Has convinced himself that spinning around in a circle to tell us that "large" in "the Greek" means "really big", is helpful and essential to our walk.

Lacy

It's not a Transliteration when the word has been a part of the English lexicon for hundreds of years. We would call it a synonym, or at best, a derivitive.