The Christ of arminianism

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

GE: WHAT AND WHERE do you think would the Christian Church and Protestantism have been today were it not for these arch rivals of Arminianism?

HP: Oh please GE. The greatest revival of religion this nation has ever seen was led by men at direct theological antipodes to those you mention.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

HP: Oh please GE. The greatest revival of religion this nation has ever seen was led by men at direct theological antipodes to those you mention.

GE:I don't know which 'revival' you refer to. 'Revival' in any case leaves a franck taste in my mouth. I mean thrue 'reformation' --- from Roman Catholic Error such as 'free-will' --- at global scale and of abiding duration. I don't mean putty men with loud voices and long arms to wave and long fingers to pick the pockets of millions in dire need of true help -- salvation!

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

GE:I don't know which 'revival' you refer to.

HP: You might try Googling for enlightenment concerning the notion of true revival and the men of God that led them.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

HP: You might try Googling for enlightenment concerning the notion of true revival and the men of God that led them.

GE:

The Gospel is the only Word from God that ALWAYS confronts the human through the Word of the Good News of Jesus Christ, in Jesus Christ, in the Scripures. It never happens in a corner, nor under an upside down bucket. Its light cannot be contained; its voice never stilled. It isn't computer-restricted.

So where's your 'revival', your 'revivalists'? You mean the likes of Billy Graham? Where will one like me find him? I shall have to go on a pilgimage to receive (what do they call an interview with the pope again?) for they all are just the same. When they 'APPEAR' they are worshipped in awe and wonderment, jaws hanging like in sit-sleep. Arms he spreads like eagle's wings and hands virtually beaming from fingertips to stupified, rivers of unholy fire. Like gods they are. Recogniseability is their chief characteristic. Still where and who are yours?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

'audition' was the word!

 

[BobRyan]

GE:

Bob, why not refer to our Calvinistic historic writers, starting with Luther,

I don't think Luther was "calvinist" and I don't think Calvin would take the wild extreme position of modern 4 and 5 point Calvinists.

But if you can find similar quotes for THEM - please feel free to add substance to your post.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Bob quotes from the G-F-T link that Dustin recommends and then adds -

Rich in vitriol, pointless accusation, rambling and baseless charge after baseless charge -- but where is the "substance"??

Where is the actual act of "dealing with" the points and Bible proofs of the Arminian position???

How could such material even appeal to a Calvinist let alone be considered "persuasive" by the informed Arminian of today??

By sharp contrast - 4 and 5 point Calvinism is exposed with perfect clarity here -- (and in 1/10th the space)

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost...&postcount=133

But I get the feeling that the Calvinists quoted at my link above - and the scenario exposing modern Calvinism's "institutes of grace" thare are in such stark contradiction TO Grace - is not well accepted by all Calvinists.

However - the Calvinists quoted are 4 and 5 point Calvinists - so keep that in mind.

In Christs,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I don't think Luther was "calvinist" and I don't think Calvin would take the wild extreme position of modern 4 and 5 point Calvinists.

But if you can find similar quotes for THEM - please feel free to add substance to your post.

In Christ,

Bob

GE:

In his own way Luther was more 'Calvinist' than Calvin. Read his 'Bondage of the Will' by many regarded the 'manifesto of the Reformation'?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BR:

"the scenario exposing modern Calvinism's "institutes of grace" thare are in such stark contradiction TO Grace "

GE:

Please explain -- I'm not well enough informed in the first place, and secondly, not equipped well enough mentally to unravel the mysteries of American shorthand.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

BR: "the scenario exposing modern Calvinism's "institutes of grace" they are in such stark contradiction TO Grace "

HP: One of the greatest problems I see with Calvinism is that what to the Calvinist is grace, is in fact nothing more or less than justice. If man is totally incapable of doing anything but sin, how can God hold man not only accountable but punish man for his inability to overcome his necessited fate? Even God cannot do that!

Would not justice demand that if man was going to be held accountable that he be granted the necessary abilities to perform what is demanded of him and that he will ultimately be held responsible for?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

GE: In his own way Luther was more 'Calvinist' than Calvin. Read his 'Bondage of the Will' by many regarded the 'manifesto of the Reformation'?

HP: It is good that you understand that. It appears there are some that follow Luther on the list that might not know the trees from which they are carved.

If his Bondage of the Will is the manifesto of the reformation, it certainly failed to accomplish that for which it is named. There is as much fodder for error in that book as any I have ever read. It has done much to keep the Church in spiritual and intellectual bondage, and does so even to this day and age. I can not imagine a doctrine in more error than the denial of freedom of the will. That is a cardinal error of eternal proportions. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[BobRyan]

HP: One of the greatest problems I see with Calvinism is that what to the Calvinist is grace, is in fact nothing more or less than justice. If man is totally incapable of doing anything but sin, how can God hold man not only accountable but punish man for his inability to overcome his necessited fate? Even God cannot do that!

Would not justice demand that if man was going to be held accountable that he be granted the necessary abilities to perform what is demanded of him and that he will ultimately be held responsible for?

The sad thing is that it is arbitrary selection of the FEW in Matt 7 that is being marketed as "God so loving the WORLD" and God "Not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance".

The great sin of Calvinist theology is that it marries its concept of arbitrary selection to the global sweeping phrases of scripture where God claims to "LOVE the WORLD" and "Give His Son to be the Savior of the World" and offer Christ as "The Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" when what He "really means" is "God so loved the FEW that He gave...".

And that is tragic.

Now if we go to the truly desperate perhaps frantic parent in this scenario -- http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=992254&postcount=133 and offer them that false marketing "truth" above what would be THEIR reaction to "God so Loved the World and by that I mean the arbitrarily selected FEW of Matt 7"???

Would it be "WOW! Thanks for that full disclosure -- the more I know about the REALITY vs the marketing the more I love it"


In Christ,

Bob