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The Christ of arminianism
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
DQuixote said:
Thank you I join the ranks of guys like this
acts 26
20But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
21For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.
22Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.
24And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad. :godisgood:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Delusional man! When you can heal the sick regularly, cast out devils, and raise the dead, escape death again and again, supernaturally recover from a stoning, and see visions, write Scripture--THEN you can compare yourself to Paul. Were you to show up in one of Paul's churches, he would have kicked you out and delivered you over to Satan, like he did to " Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."1Tim 1:20
Delusional man! When you can heal the sick regularly, cast out devils, and raise the dead, escape death again and again, supernaturally recover from a stoning, and see visions, write Scripture--THEN you can compare yourself to Paul. Were you to show up in one of Paul's churches, he would have kicked you out and delivered you over to Satan, like he did to " Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."1Tim 1:20
Brother Bob
New Member
I am not disagreeing with you, but its ironic when some want to justify "sin", they use Paul saying he was the cheif of sinners.
We do tend to use them in which ever way they will help our theory, don't we. Including myself.
Quite true Bob. The appeal to Paul being the "chief of sinners", was a SAYING that the early church recited, probably at baptism. There are little sayings all over the NT which show they had little creedal things they memorized, and that was one of them.
But if you look at the context, it is clear Paul had in mind his persecuting past of the church. He was not PRESENTLY, as a holy apostle, the worst sinner alive, worse than Sodomites and child-molesters! His heart was still broken over the fact that he hurt other believers to the degree that he did. He hurt many of them.
Paul said he was DEAD TO SIN, CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST, AND COULD DO NOTHING AGAINST HE TRUTH. He walked in victory over sin, as should we all, because the death and resurrection of Christ was so effectual on our behalf, and the weapons and armor we receive are so complete, that we can STAND in the evil day against all the wiles of the Devil, and the Lord, with EVERY temeptation makes a way of escape, for he is faithful. Its a shame Christians want to lower Paul to their own low-level of experience and pretend that they are like him, or living defeated and talking about it as if it is humility. We are seated in heavenly places with Christ, we died with Him, we are alive with Him.
The reason why the Devil gets over on us like he does is because we really don't know who we are in Christ, and we opften can't believe it because we are told that would be "pride". It is not "pride" to believe Jesus Christ destroyed sin's power over our life, it is pride to sin and then make religious excuses for it, and say Christ cannot deliver us from it!
Well, I am off topic. Its all your fault brother Bob! :laugh:
But if you look at the context, it is clear Paul had in mind his persecuting past of the church. He was not PRESENTLY, as a holy apostle, the worst sinner alive, worse than Sodomites and child-molesters! His heart was still broken over the fact that he hurt other believers to the degree that he did. He hurt many of them.
Paul said he was DEAD TO SIN, CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST, AND COULD DO NOTHING AGAINST HE TRUTH. He walked in victory over sin, as should we all, because the death and resurrection of Christ was so effectual on our behalf, and the weapons and armor we receive are so complete, that we can STAND in the evil day against all the wiles of the Devil, and the Lord, with EVERY temeptation makes a way of escape, for he is faithful. Its a shame Christians want to lower Paul to their own low-level of experience and pretend that they are like him, or living defeated and talking about it as if it is humility. We are seated in heavenly places with Christ, we died with Him, we are alive with Him.
The reason why the Devil gets over on us like he does is because we really don't know who we are in Christ, and we opften can't believe it because we are told that would be "pride". It is not "pride" to believe Jesus Christ destroyed sin's power over our life, it is pride to sin and then make religious excuses for it, and say Christ cannot deliver us from it!
Well, I am off topic. Its all your fault brother Bob! :laugh:
Brother Bob
New Member
Man, am I glad to run into you. I been saying that same thing since I been on here but not many listeners. They can call me what they like, I know what I am and how I live but more important, the Lord knows. I believe the scripture when it says the righteous of the Law is fulfilled in us. I think Christians are pretty good people myself, not as some on here have said. We have our faults but if I was the same man I was before a rebirth in Christ, I would be on my knees.
Anyway, back to the topic.
Anyway, back to the topic.
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Arminius said:
Preach it!
But I have a question - is it possible that only Arminians could ever accept this Bible truth?
Is there something about Calvinism that makes them blind to this particular promise in the Gospel? "I will write my Law IN their HEART" the NEW Creation walks "as Christ walked" 1John 2:4-7. The born-again new Creation "good tree" actually DOES produce "Good fruits" Matt 7.
In Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
But "before" we get to the Calvinist future scenario - we must first pick up the rope that the Calvinist just used to hang himself - otherwise the other Calvinists would claim that such a rope no longer exists.
They are nothing if not true revisionist-historians.
Post 9 on this thread --
the text says "God loved us"
In John 3:16 "GOD so Loved the WORLD" and so "US" is the WORLD of humans from all of time.
But in Calvinism -- some "redefinition is needed here"
God so Loved the WORLD is downsized to "the FEW of Matt 7" AND THEN they can take something like the "US" of Eph 2 and argue that in fact God is being arbitrary.
But they are wrong - and their view REQUIRES a certain callous disregard for the lost.
as we will point out.
(in the name of fairness I also have to point out that Beloved57 has made this next slam dunk wayyyy too easy!!)
in Christ,
Bob
They are nothing if not true revisionist-historians.
Post 9 on this thread --
Beloved57 writes --
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=953264&postcount=9
dq ask
Quote:
Help me out here, okay? Before the foundation of the world, before there was anything, God said "I'm going to create a bunch of folks. I'm going to create a Group A, and a Group B. I'm going to save everyone in Group A, but those I place in Group B are doomed.
This is true, The reason being, that God wanted to and purposed to display His Grace !
eph 2 4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
the text says "God loved us"
In John 3:16 "GOD so Loved the WORLD" and so "US" is the WORLD of humans from all of time.
But in Calvinism -- some "redefinition is needed here"
God so Loved the WORLD is downsized to "the FEW of Matt 7" AND THEN they can take something like the "US" of Eph 2 and argue that in fact God is being arbitrary.
But they are wrong - and their view REQUIRES a certain callous disregard for the lost.
as we will point out.
(in the name of fairness I also have to point out that Beloved57 has made this next slam dunk wayyyy too easy!!)
in Christ,
Bob
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
The inner quotes contain “The scenario”. Everything else is my commentary. (Of course the entire thing is my own test scenario for Calvinism)
Calvinist future scenario complete!
Notice the “focus” in that perfect Calvinist utopian future - is always on “you” the one that is arbitrarily selected and then justifying the callous disregard of your precious child under the guise of “Well God does not HAVE to care about ANYONE just be glad YOU made it”.
Fascinating!
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Yes Bob, the Lord cannot get through all the serious error that comes in the Calvinistic package for them to believe that we can live in victory over sin, if we realize Christ destroyed it and we walk in His resurrection power. Calvinists make sin greater than the Cross, whether they are aware of it or not. And then they accuse real Bible believers of pride for DARING to say that victory over sin has been accomplished by the Lamb of God. Calvinism is always consistent--it is fatalism on every level, including the Christians perpetual defeat against sin. And they call this kind of Christian life humility and normal. It is sad. That is why the Lord always has to send the Wesleys and the Finneys to straighten out the mess Calvinism makes wherever a group, city or nation embraces it. America was a mess when Finney showed up on the scene, and he realized the problem was not athiesm--it was not blatant sinfulness in the USA, the death-grip on this nation was Calvinism. He had to expend a lot of time deprogramming professing Christians so they could really get saved, and then get them to go out and win the lost, and be involved in prayer and intercession regularly. And it is amazing that a passage like Rom 7 is used by them as the norm for this life, when it is clear from chapters 6-8, that chapter 7 is a reference to a man under the law, with good intentions, but no power to carry them out. Paul was delivered from that state, but Calvinists want to put the church there! Finney said that if our experience is Romans 7, we are either backslid or were never saved to begin with. Strong words.
rbell said:
Indeed, I had to quit posting on this thread and the "Did God create sin.." thread because
A. I myself was getting more and more vitriolic with every post, and at the same time, less and less edifying, and it was very hard to get a reasonable response from anyone I was adressing.
B. Name calling, which I was also doing (insert repentance here), is 2nd grade stuff. There are some here who throw tantrums not unlike my 2 year old son. It's like a day care where all the children are hopped up on coffee and someone took away their pack lunches or turned off the Barney movie.
C. I stated my position well enough that those who don't agree with me know where I stand. There is not much else to do, unless I want to waste time and energy arguing with free-willers and Armininans, on an issue which has no forseeable end, at least on this board.
D. I tend to get tired of arguing really quick, I'm not made for debates. It's a lot easier when opponents are reasonable. I'd rather argue with BobRyan, than a few of his doctrinal cohorts, because at least Bob makes decent arguments most of the time. What I mean is, some arguments with Bob are at least edifying in the end, unlike sertain other people, who shall remain nameless.
These two threads have about as much grace as a brass knuckle street fight, and as the old saying goes "I'm a lover, not a fighter."
Grace and Peace be with you all.
Dustin