The Christ of arminianism

[Dustin]

I think using "armininan" and "wisdom" in the same sentence is funny.

Soli Deo Gloria
Dustin

P.S. You're welcome!

 

[BobRyan]

Maybe a closer read of -

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=992254&postcount=133

Would have helped explain the details for you.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Dustin]

What does a faulty model prove?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BobRyan, have you read one line of http://grace-for-today.com/1025.htm? I bet you haven't!

 

[Dustin]

I doubt he's read it.


Soli Deo Gloria,
Dustin

 

[BobRyan]

What does a faulty model prove?

Calvinism is by definition - a faulty model.

But a more significant question would be - "If you want to claim that the scenario violates somse principle of Calvinism - why not SHOW it?"

Simply claiming to have found a flaw in the scenario provided is not the "same thing" as actually doing it.

Just pointing out the obvious - since that is usually my role in these discussions.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

Simply claiming to have found a flaw in the scenario provided is not the "same thing" as actually doing it.

Just pointing out the obvious - since that is usually my role in these discussions.
Bob

Claiming "I'm right; you're wrong" is not debate.

 

[BobRyan]

True. In the case of the scenario at that link - I am simply pointing out the obvious -- that Dustin's "Claim" to find a flaw in the scenario that does not render some principle of calvinism is not the same thing as "actually showing" that claim to be true by pointing to some actual fact.

Again - an obvious point.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Dustin]

I'm not interested in discussing your models.

I'm not interested in talking about Arminianism until you read that link I posted way back when.

I'll post it here, because I think it's only fair that you read the whole thing as I have had to read your multi-colered models over and over, and over, and over, and over, ad nauseum.

The Arminian Skeleton by William Huntington:

http://grace-for-today.com/1025.htm

Once you read and understand those things, I will talk to you about Arminianism, and I will maybe even discuss your model.


I'll get going now, you've a lot of reading to do.

Soli Deo Gloria,
Dustin

 

[Dustin]

Calvinism is by definition - a faulty model.

I don't know how I missed that the first time. Enlighten me Bob.


Soli Deo Gloria,
Dustin

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Using the word "Arminianism" toward those who do not hold to the heresy of irresistable grace is a pejorative that has no foundation and is used to incite negative emotion toward truth. As in the case of the op the position of those who refuse the heresy of irresistable grace is often mischaracterized.

 

[BobRyan]

Three point Calvinists come to mind as those in that group

 

[BobRyan]

I'm not interested in discussing your models.

So your "faulty model" statement was you "not looking" at the inconvenient "details"???

Noted.

What I won't do is post a link to reams of anti-Calvinist rhetoric at other web sites for you to wade through.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The Arminian Skeleton by William Huntington:

http://grace-for-today.com/1025.htm

Ok - fine done.

All that was found there was empty vaccuous rambling of the form

If they talk of love, it is not that love which delights in the excellent of the earth, and in such as excel in virtue; but a love that is warm only for rebels and traitors, and hates the elect of God. Surely he that hateth his brother because he holds the truth of God's election, is a murderer; and no murderer hath any part in the kingdom of God and of Christ. This Universal Charity is not of God, but of the world, because it hates the elect and loves the world; and, if the elect were of the world, Universal Charity would, with the world, love her own. God forbid that a friend of the world should ever love me; because "the friendship of the world is enmity with God;" he that is a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

If one possessed of universal charity mentions, or pretends to humility, it is not that humility with which God clothes a soul. A saint in true humility has the eye of faith fixed on a reconciled God in the person of Christ; and at the same time feels the benefits of the cross flowing into his heart, and the testimony of God's Spirit witnessing with his that he is a child of God. This makes him rejoice with a joy never to be described by mortals; and reflecting on Moses's rigorous brow, Sinai's awful storm, perdition's yawning jaws, wrath's envenomed arrows, and Topnet's endless flame, makes a soul tremble, though under a sense of pardon signed and sealed; yea, tremble to think and see now nigh be was to everlasting burnings when mercy helped him up. This is rejoicing with trembling, and a man always does this work in a robe of true humility.

But Arminian humility is quite another thing; it consists in a gloomy countenance and dejected look, filled with dismay; inwardly fretting, because Moses will not accept of imperfect obedience, nor lessen the tale of bricks which they are making to build their mystical Babel; in which they shall have no better success than their ancient brethren had, who became a butt for laughter; and so shall these; "All that behold them shall begin to mock, saying, These men began to build, but were not able to finish," Luke, xiv. 29; and the reason is, because they began at their own expense, instead of drawing from the infinite fulness of the Saviour.
Such feigned humility was found in Ahab, when the artillery of heaven rattled in his ears for stealing his neighbour's vineyard; and such humility is a mask put on to deceive the souls of the simple, who think a fallen countenance, a gloomy visage, affected speech, a plain suit of apparel, and words smoother than oil, though at war with God in the heart, are the humble garb of a redeemed sheep; when, at the same time, all their grief is because their self-righteous spirits cannot make the Almighty stoop to allow of their boasting. This is "the foolishness of him who perverteth his way, and whose heart fretteth against the Lord," Proverbs, xix. 3.

Rich in vitriol, pointless accusation, rambling and baseless charge after baseless charge -- but where is the "substance"??

Where is the actual act of "dealing with" the points and Bible proofs of the Arminian position???

How could such material even appeal to a Calvinist let alone be considered "persuasive" by the informed Arminian of today??

By sharp contrast - 4 and 5 point Calvinism is exposed with perfect clarity here -- (and in 1/10th the space)

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost...&postcount=133


In Christ,

Bob

 

[Jarthur001]

Well at least one thing posted is true from this poster.



Less smoke - more fire please.

Consider for a moment the Calvinist Future Scenario -

In the old version of Baptist Board you could see the “perfect” Calvinist confirmation “in a nutshell” –






The inner quotes contain “The scenario”. Everything else is my commentary. (Of course the entire thing is my own test scenario for Calvinism)





Calvinist future scenario complete!


Notice the “focus” in that perfect Calvinist utopian future - is always on “you” the one that is arbitrarily selected and then justifying the callous disregard of your precious child under the guise of “Well God does not HAVE to care about ANYONE just be glad YOU made it”.
Fascinating!

Bob,

Please update your links. These same old cut and paste can be found in your post for over a year now. The links do not work, and you know it. No need to keep posting them over and over again.

Thanks...

 

[BobRyan]

Bob,

Please update your links. These same old cut and paste can be found in your post for over a year now. The links do not work, and you know it. No need to keep posting them over and over again.

Thanks...

Sadly - our Calvinist brethren have not posted the exact same arguments again since this new board was formed - so in a few cases I simply refer to their historic links from the old Baptist Board location. Is it your argument that with the change to this new web site - Cavlinists stop believing what they posted before? I would certainly accept that as good news!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Jarthur001]

Sadly - our Calvinist brethren have not posted the exact same arguments again since this new board was formed - so in a few cases I simply refer to their historic links from the old Baptist Board location. Is it your argument that with the change to this new web site - Cavlinists stop believing what they posted before? I would certainly accept that as good news!

In Christ,

Bob

The point, being that you missed it....

Get some new stuff.

 

[BobRyan]

The point I made - remains true even though one chooses to gloss over the details and ignore the hard questions.

The "smoke screen" that the Calvinists quoted there "have changed their minds on the very quotes that they provided" would need "actual evidence" to support it before being taken seriously.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Using the word "Arminianism" toward those who do not hold to the heresy of irresistable grace is a pejorative that has no foundation and is used to incite negative emotion toward truth. As in the case of the op the position of those who refuse the heresy of irresistable grace is often mischaracterized.

GE:

Whiz, friend, most okes like me don't have an IQ as high as yours!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Sadly - our Calvinist brethren have not posted the exact same arguments again since this new board was formed - so in a few cases I simply refer to their historic links from the old Baptist Board location. Is it your argument that with the change to this new web site - Cavlinists stop believing what they posted before? I would certainly accept that as good news!

In Christ,

Bob

GE:

Bob, why not refer to our Calvinistic historic writers, starting with Luther, Tyndale, each and every of the great Reformers, the Puritans, the great Evangelists such as Witfield, even down to the 'last of the Puritans', Spurgeon?

WHAT AND WHERE do you think would the Christian Church and Protestantism have been today were it not for these arch rivals of Arminianism?