The Copyrights issue....

[Pastor Larry]

The ASV is not the KJV.

This is perhaps the first thing you have gotten correct in this thread.

The ASV is a work of man.

In the same way that the KJV is. Men translated the Scriptures that God preserved.

The ASV is now public domain.

Which shows the fallacy of your original statement that "The other are copyrighted." At least one other is not copyrighted, and here you prove that you did not tell the truth originally.

The ASV is not the preserved word of God as it has faded to obscurity and is not preserved. The other works that I cited are still in play.

The ASV has not faded to obscurity. I have it, as do many others. It is not used as much, just like the KJV, because of other translations that have surpassed it. But it is preserved. Ask me how I know? Because I have it.

The ASV is public domain.

Yes, which means it is not copyrighted.

Is their perhaps, just the slightest most remote chance, that you might not know what you are talking about?

Not on this topic for the most part. There are certainly people who know more than I do, but they generally share my view, even though they might prefer the KJV or the Majority Text. They most certainly do not share yours. People who have genuine knowledge of the Word of God do not hold the view that you hold.

Simply amazing to have no foundation? No final authority but a potpourri of Bibles to pick and choose from?

What are you talking about? Who has no foundation?

I have been on your side of this fence. I lived most of my lukewarm existence on those soft on sin Bibles.

No you haven't. You have never accepted the truth of God's word about this matter. I lived most of my lukewarm Christian life while exclusively using the KJV. When I started using other versions my walk with God drastically improved.

Now, I have found the true word of God and it has changed me.

I have had it all along, first in the KJV and now in other versions.

I will not lay down my sword. In the words of David, "there is none like it give it me".

And neither will I. The word of God is powerful and sharp. And that wasn't said about the KJV.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Which shows the fallacy of your original statement that "The other are copyrighted." At least one other is not copyrighted, and here you prove that you did not tell the truth originally.

I provided a list of those I was identifying as "other". You associated that to every Bible ever printed, perhaps I communicated ineffectively and if so, I apologize.

The ASV has not faded to obscurity. I have it, as do many others. It is not used as much, just like the KJV, because of other translations that have surpassed it. But it is preserved. Ask me how I know? Because I have it.

If this is your criteria then every Bible ever printed is preserved if you can find one copy of it somewhere.

Not on this topic for the most part. There are certainly people who know more than I do, but they generally share my view, even though they might prefer the KJV or the Majority Text. They most certainly do not share yours. People who have genuine knowledge of the Word of God do not hold the view that you hold.

People who are faithful to the KJV do not believe in the Majority Text.

What are you talking about? Who has no foundation?

What is your foundation? If I have a Bible study with you and we are discussing Matthew 17:21, which Bible are you going to use? Who are the three that bear record in 1 John 5:7? Which Bible is your foundation? If we are to live by every word of God which one has the word of God and which one is either adding or taking away?

And neither will I. The word of God is powerful and sharp. And that wasn't said about the KJV.

Your library is about to burn down but you have to go to battle and only have time to grab one book. Which is the sword (not swords) of the spirit that you will go to war with?

 

[rbell]

Your library is about to burn down but you have to go to battle and only have time to grab one book. Which is the sword (not swords) of the spirit that you will go to war with?

My computer...that way I have biblegateway.com and can use my whole arsenal...KJV, NKJV, NIV, NASV, HCSV, et al. :tongue3:

...btw, scripture talks of the "sword of the Spirit" being "the Word of God," not a single particular translation. That's eisegesis.

 

[Keith M]

The electronics age has also caused a reduction in the number of printed Bibles. Many folks do not buy a printed Bible when they can find that version online. For example, the ASV which has been mentioned previously is alive and well at http://www.studylight.org where it and many other Bible versions are recognized as being the word of God.

 

[Rufus_1611]

My computer...that way I have biblegateway.com and can use my whole arsenal...KJV, NKJV, NIV, NASV, HCSV, et al. :tongue3:

Alright. Your house is burning down and Alabama just got hit by an electromagnetic pulse. Now what do you do?

 

[Ed Edwards]

Alright. Your house is burning down and Alabama just got hit by an electromagnetic pulse. Now what do you do?

Thy word have I hid in my heart
that I might overcome dire events
and impress Rufus_1611. :tonofbricks:

Strangely, most of what I memorized as a kid comes from the KJV1769 Edition Bible.

 

[Pastor Larry]

If this is your criteria then every Bible ever printed is preserved if you can find one copy of it somewhere.

It is the definition of preserved. I would have thought you would have known that.

People who are faithful to the KJV do not believe in the Majority Text.

So the Majority Text is not the Bible? I believe in the Majority Text, even though I don't use it. I could be persuaded to the Majority Text position. It has some credibility. The TR position has very little. The KJVO position has none.

But people who prefer the Majority Text typically use the KJV becuase there is no mainstream translation of the Majority Text.

What is your foundation? If I have a Bible study with you and we are discussing Matthew 17:21, which Bible are you going to use? Who are the three that bear record in 1 John 5:7? Which Bible is your foundation? If we are to live by every word of God which one has the word of God and which one is either adding or taking away?

If we were having a Bible study on any verse, we would use a variety of translations, just as the KJV translators suggested. In the two places you mention here, it is most likely that the KJV follows an addition to the word of God, something that God forbade.

Your library is about to burn down but you have to go to battle and only have time to grab one book. Which is the sword (not swords) of the spirit that you will go to war with?

I would probably grab my computer first. It is the one thing I can't live without. And with BibleWorks, I have all the Bible translations I need.

As for a physical book, I will grab my Greek NT. All translations come from that. But it is so close to my NASB that picking it up wouldn't take any additional time, so I would grab both.

 

[robycop3]

My point in starting this copyrights thread was to show the whole copyrights thingie to be a poor attempt by some KJVO authors to justify their doctrine by saying the other versions are sold for money. Here are a coupla facts that should be eye-openers for the average KJVO or for someone leaning in that durection:

1.) The early AV 1611 copies bore the KING'S TAX STAMP, ultimately paid for by the consumer. This was the idea of Sir Robert Cecil, KJ's Finance Minister, with the idea of adding to the royal treasury.

2. ) Virtually every currently-produced copy of the KJV in the USA has some parta it copyrighted. Yeah, I know the text isn't copyrighted in the USA, but if an edition has some parta it c-righted, then that whole edition may be considered c-righted.

3.) There's no proof that selling copies of God's word for money is sinful. After all, printers have the same right to earn money as everyone else. Pastors and preachers are paid to preach & use God's word; that action has never been considered sinful unless abused, so what's the difference?

Still very interested in what the British Embassy hasta say.

 

[rsr]

Still very interested in what the British Embassy hasta say.

No need to wait for the embassy. You can check out the copyright instructions from the Church of England:

"Cambridge University Press: extracts (and adapted extracts) from The Book of Common Prayer and The Authorised (King James) Version, the rights in which are vested in the Crown, are reproduced by permission of the Crown's Patentee, Cambridge University Press."

http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/dailyprayer/copyright/

"Authorized Version (AV), also known as the King James Version (KJV) Cambridge University Press
The Edinburgh Building
Shaftesbury Road
Cambridge CB2 2RU
Tel: (01223) 312393
Fax: (01223) 315052.
(Applications should be addressed to The Permissions Controller.)
Application not required for liturgical use up to a maximum of 500 verses (not including a complete biblical book)."

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

So are you saying...

If it ain't Baruch....


...don't fix it?

<snare drum rim shot>
Are you gonna be here all week?
:laugh:

Your library is about to burn down but you have to go to battle and only have time to grab one book. Which is the sword (not swords) of the spirit that you will go to war with?

I have two hands, so I would grab both my TRUE 1611 Authorised Version and my 1599 Geneva Bible.

BiR

 

[tinytim]

Alright. Your house is burning down and Alabama just got hit by an electromagnetic pulse. Now what do you do?

Move to WV.... Country boys can survive!!!!!:applause: :thumbs:

I got a 4 barrelled sword (like Eds, KJV 1873, NIV, NLT, NASB) in the form of a parallel Bible...
I would grab it, and my computer... e-sword has spoiled me!

 

[tinytim]

No need to wait for the embassy. You can check out the copyright instructions from the Church of England:

"Cambridge University Press: extracts (and adapted extracts) from The Book of Common Prayer and The Authorised (King James) Version, the rights in which are vested in the Crown, are reproduced by permission of the Crown's Patentee, Cambridge University Press."

http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/dailyprayer/copyright/

"Authorized Version (AV), also known as the King James Version (KJV) Cambridge University Press
The Edinburgh Building
Shaftesbury Road
Cambridge CB2 2RU
Tel: (01223) 312393
Fax: (01223) 315052.
(Applications should be addressed to The Permissions Controller.)
Application not required for liturgical use up to a maximum of 500 verses (not including a complete biblical book)."

Well that answers a couple questions.. one that was raised a few weeks ago... What should we call it... the KJ Version or KJ Bible...
It is copyrighted as the King James Version.

Can't get much plainer than that.

 

[robycop3]

Alright. Your house is burning down and Alabama just got hit by an electromagnetic pulse. Now what do you do?

1.) Call my insurance co.

2.) Pray for Alabama. Nothing against its people, but I have no reason to be there.

 

[Rufus_1611]

The response to the copyright enquiry is in...the answer from our fine English brothers is...figure it out for yourself.

"Thank you for your enquiry. Please visit the below link for more information on UK copyright law.

http://www.bl.uk/services/information/copyrightfaq.html

Yours sincerely,
British Embassy Enquiry Service

YOUR QUESTION

Does the Authorized Version of the Holy Bible have a copyright? If I was to take the scripture in this Bible and copy it anew for resale would I be in violation of any British law?"​

 

[rbell]

So in 2003, apparently, the copyright was lifted/relaxed? I don't read lawyerspeak very well.

But it had a copyright until then...so what's the point? It was copyrighted...just like all other versions.

If there's a point, it would seem to be that all these translations are on equal footing, when it comes to "copyright" and man's making money of the printing of God's Word.

 

[rsr]

In fact, according to the documents referenced, British copyright law is now more restrictive than it was previously in regard to reproduction for commercial purposes.

 

[robycop3]

The British said that no copyright in force at the time of the 2003 changes would be nollied by those changes. But they didn't answer the pertinent question..."Is the KJV under copyright in the UK?"

Given as we have a post containing the copyright of the Cambridge KJV edition, we must assume the KJV is still copyrighted in the UK.

And once again, I fail to see where a copyright affects the validity of ANY given BV. OTOH, a copyright affirms a given copy is a GENUINE copy.

 

[HankD]

So in 2003, apparently, the copyright was lifted/relaxed? I don't read lawyerspeak very well.

But it had a copyright until then...so what's the point? It was copyrighted...just like all other versions.

If there's a point, it would seem to be that all these translations are on equal footing, when it comes to "copyright" and man's making money of the printing of God's Word.

Following the radical KJVO logic that the Word of God can not be copyrighted then we actually didn't have that Word until 2003.

So now the question is no longer where was the Word of God before 1611, but where was the Word of God before 2003?

In fact the very Bibles that the RKJVO use are not the "real" Word of God if they were prurchased before 2003 either because they were the "american" version ("labor" instead of "labour") and/or had a copyright.

Which leads into another question: Did the copyrighted versions suddenly become the Word of God when the copyright was lifted and which of the many varying editions was the correct qualifying Bible (Oxford, Cambridge, Nelson, etc)?

Point: Illogic knows no boundaries.

HankD

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

In fact, according to the documents referenced, British copyright law is now more restrictive than it was previously in regard to reproduction for commercial purposes.

Thats what I got out of it. A tightening of copyright laws to bring them more into line with EU law.

 

[robycop3]

I believe we can safely arrive at two conclusions:

1.) The KJV IS copyrighted wherever British law is applicable.

2. ) NO version is affected whatsoever by being c-righted or not being c-righted. The KJVO argument against copyrighting is hot air.