The Difference between Adventists and the SDB.

I seems to me that if a SDA congregation wanted to claim dual denominational titles, it has every right to do so. From what I see, SDA fit the definition of Baptist.

 

I am sorry but I don't agree. By what I just read the Seventh Day Baptist are not cultish. They do not adhere to false prophecies and false teachings of people who are dishonest.

SDA were called Millerites originally because they followed a man called Miller who prophesied twice that Christ was returning. Once in 1843 and another time in 1844.

There is newspaper evidence and court documents that have proven that Ellen G. White perjured her self on more than one occasion in court of law.
This does not speak well about her Christian walk
at all. There is copies of her writings and in many of them she condemns women for wearing jewelry and demands her followers to follow these dietary laws but there has been much evidence such as pictures of her wearing jewelry and photos of her eating pork and other things she forbade her followers to eat.

7th day adventist know this is there but still choose to believe her writings.

The Bible makes it very clear that if a prophet prophesies something in the name of the Lord and
it does not come to pass that person is to be put aside and shunned.

Paul said if anyone came preaching any other gospel than that what he preached let them be accursed. The fact that she was saying Christ had shut the door of mercy in the 1800's then a few years later changed the story should have
kept anyone from falling her but people are very gullible.

Cults tend to have some parts of their beliefs that mesh with normal Christianity.

 

I have heard that many SDA churches believe church must take place on Saturday, and that having church worship on Sundays is wrong and will be the "mark of the beast". Can anyone verify this, and explain the origin of this teaching?

 

That is much easier said than done! I can suggest some reading to you, if you would like to gain further understanding of this doctrine, because I don't really have the time to explain it all to you. To understand why we believe sunday sacredness to be a mark that identifies the beast you need to understand why we believe the beast is who we think it is.

So if you want to know, go to these links:

"The Beast, The Dragon, and The Woman"


"Who will worship the Beast?"


"Is Sunday Sacred?"


I can answer any questions that you have about the things contained in these studies.

God Bless

[ February 13, 2003, 01:00 AM: Message edited by: 3AngelsMom ]

 

Again, you spout off a whole slew of slander with NO evidencial support.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE EVIDENCE

God Bless

 

Ben W
Here is where we agree,

Both Denominations -
- Practice baptism of believers by immersion.
- Observe the Seventh Day Sabbath, the seventh day of the week.
- Express non liturgical worship
- Are concerned with religious freedom and the separation of church and state.

As well as --

The Trinity,

The Bible (ALL 66 not just 23) as the sole authority on all matters of Faith and doctrine.

Salvation by Grace through Faith

Baptism of believers - full immersion as a SYMBOL of salvation coming AFTER one is saved by accepting Christ.

The Lords Supper as a "symbol" using grape juice and bread.

Literal Creation week.

Premillenial second coming.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Ok, so lets get into the differences!

I know pretty much now where we agree.

Whay say you to soul sleep?

What is your doctrine on the state of the dead?

What happens when you die?

What happens at the Resurrection?


God Bless

 

Ben W -- Going on from the thread on fellowshipping with a Seventh Day Adventist Family, here are the main differences between the Seventh Day Adventist Church and the Seventh Day Baptist Church.

1. SDB hold to the historical Protestant principal that the bible is the final authoritive source in matters of faith and practice, and that Christ is the supreme interpreter of Gods will for Mankind.

This is not a difference - it is a belief held in common.

Ben W
1. SDA Hold to the bible as the source of their faith, but also believe that Ellen G White was an inspired prophetess, and that her writings and interpretations are to be recieved as Authoritive in the church.


The "difference" is not in accepting the Bible as the final authority - rather it is in accepting the 1Cor 14:1-2 instruction on spiritual gifts in general.

SDA's believe in the continuation of spiritual gifts. Ellen White is merely an "instance" of that, just as the believers gifts in 1Cor 14 were simply an "instance" of spiritual gifts yet they were fully able to hold to the supremecy of scripture though they had spiritual gifts.

So there is " a difference" but it is not in holding to the authority of scripture as supreme.

Ben W
2. SDB hold to the congregigftonal form of organisation where the power rests with the local congregation and its descion making, including the call and support of ministers. The General conference of churches operates on the principal of advice and consent for cooperative programmes, fellowship and spiritual enrichment.

2. SDA Hold to an Episcopal form of organisation in which the power flows from the top down.


This is true. The Administration is more hierarchical in SDA churches though not quite to the Episcopal level.

3 -- mostly true.

Ben --
4. SDB make a distinction between the moral laws of the Old Testament (Such as the Ten Commandments) and the ceremonial laws (given for the developing Israel nation).


This is held in common by both groups.

Ben W--
Hence they do not consider things such as dietry laws still obligatory.

SDA's do not find "diet" in the List of Ceremonial celebrations found in Lev 23 and do not view a "ceremony of diet" to be found in the ceremonial laws. Rather SDAs see the "edible food" principle in Genesis 7-9 long before there was a Hebrew. However in taking that position - that is "a difference".

Ben W--
5. SDB agree with other protestants that Christs work was finished on the cross. The gift of eternal life, based on Gods grace and not our own works, assures a future free from condemnation.


In that much there is agreement IF the "work of Christ at the cross" is taken to be the 1John 2:2 Work -- "the Atoning Sacrifice for Our sins and not for Our sins only but for those of the whole world".

Ben W
(SDB) reject the emphasis on and interpretation of the "investagative judgement"


5. SDA lay great stress on the the 3 angels message of Rev 14:7-12. They consider that Christ entered into the heavenly sanctuary in 1844 and that an investagative judgement of human lives is now going on in heaven.

That is true. A "difference" can be seen there.

(I edited your statement regarding SDAs to more accurately hit the nail on the head.)

Ben W --

They may feel responsable to confess each sin and live a righteous life

That is also true.

Ben W --
thus calling into question their assurance of Salvation.

The idea that repentance, confession and the calling to holy living is a threat to the assurance of salvation - is a "difference". SDAs do not see it as threatening assurance - they are Arminian in that regard.

6. -- True

Ben W --
7. SDB in general believ that upon death the souls of the righteous go to be with God. They believe that the redeemed will be given spiritual and glorified bodies at the Ressurection

7. SDA teach that both the body and the spirit fall asleep in death not to waken until Christ returns. Until that day the dead are (literally) unconcious.

SDA's believe that the body dies - turns to dust and the spirit of all men goes to God at death - incapable of thought or consciousness until the resurrection. They do not believe the body is "asleep". Rather they consider that when Paul speaks of "Those who have fallen asleep" in 1Thess 4 - he makes reference to the saints - the persons that are dead.

However - that is another area of "difference".

Thank you for posting that comparison.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Brian TI have heard that many SDA churches believe church must take place on Saturday, and that having church worship on Sundays is wrong and will be the "mark of the beast". Can anyone verify this, and explain the origin of this teaching?

SDAs do not believe that attending church on Sunday "is wrong" or that doing so will give you "the mark of the beast". In fact you will often find SDAs in church on Sundays for evangelistic services or in some cases attending other churches.

However they DO teach that rebellion against the 4th commandment - the Sabbath - is sin.

They teach that rebellion against any of the 10 cmmandments is "sin".

They teach that the 7th-day is the Sabbath and is to be set aside as a day of rest and worship.

It is not attending church on Tuesday, Monday or Sunday that is "a problem" in the view of SDA's - rather it is "NOT" keeping the 4th commandment that is "the problem".

Rev 14 and 13 speak of the Mark of the beast and contrast it with Worship to God that specifically targets his role as "Him who made the heavens the earth the seas and the springs of water" Rev 7:7.

A signal emphasis on worship that highlights God as our creator is being made there and contrasted to the mark of the Beast.

Adventists declare that a last day attack on God's role as Creator - and specifically His command to worship Him in that regard - via the special memorial day - day of worship that he created for that purpose -- is an issue in the end of time.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Tuor
I seems to me that if a SDA congregation wanted to claim dual denominational titles, it has every right to do so. From what I see, SDA fit the definition of Baptist.

You are correct.

Baptist hold to the Bible as God's supreme authorotative Word and to baptism of believers by immersion - as well as salvation by grace through faith.

And that is held in "common".

Many Baptist also hold to the priesthood of all believers such that anything beyond that list is up to the individual. So if you stick to that rule - then "in that sense" Adventists do qualify as Arminian "Baptists".

In Christ,

Bob

 

hrhema
SDA were called Millerites originally because they followed a man called Miller who prophesied twice that Christ was returning. Once in 1843 and another time in 1844.

Might as well get that fact right while you are at it.

There were about 50,000 Millerites in the 1840's. Out of that number 50 (that would be 5 0 ) banded together to form the start of the Adventist church. They finally - formally organized in the 1860's as the Seventh-day Adventist church.

So you can not blame the 50,000 Millerites for what you don't like about Adventists - the 50 that chose that specific direction.

You need to focus your bat a little.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Originally posted by Ben W:
Going on from the thread on fellowshipping with a Seventh Day Adventist Family, here are the main differences between the Seventh Day Adventist Church and the Seventh Day Baptist Church.

1. SDB hold to the historical Protestant principal that the bible is the final authoritive source in matters of faith and practice, and that Christ is the supreme interpreter of Gods will for Mankind.

1. SDA Hold to the bible as the source of their faith, but also believe that Ellen G White was an inspired prophetess, and that her writings and interpretations are to be recieved as Authoritive in the church.

In so much as they agree with Scripture, and are used in a manner that is in accordance with Scripture. Her writings that are 'authoritative' are the ones that tell us how to structure the church, i.e. Conferences, local assemblies etc.

2. SDB hold to the congregational form of organisation where the power rests with the local congregation and its descion making, including the call and support of ministers. The General conference of churches operates on the principal of advice and consent for cooperative programmes, fellowship and spiritual enrichment.

2. SDA Hold to an Episcopal form of organisation in which the power flows from the top down.

Ehhh, I wouldn't go as far as to say that it is Episcopal. The Episcopal system starts at ONE person and trickles down. The leadership of the SDA church is a large body of people worldwide. It isn't just one person, like the Pope, or a Bishop.

3. SDB cherish the individual interpretation of the scriptures under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, for this reason they allow lattitude in the understanding and application of scriptures.

3. SDA Hold to a creedal position, expecting a more detailled uniformity in their members beliefs and practices.

Again, I am going to have to clarify that the SDA does not REQUIRE the members to believe a certain way. The doctrines held by the SDA is what unifies the believers within it. We all come together because we are like minded. I know people in my own congregation who believe differently on certain issues, but on the weightier matters agree. Those issues that they disagree on, may or may not be part of the 'creeds' that are held by the majority of believers. We all agree on the weightier matters of doctrine. Salvation, Sanctification, Justification, Sabbath etc.

4. SDB make a distinction between the moral laws of the Old Testament (Such as the Ten Commandments) and the ceremonial laws (given for the developing Israel nation). Hence they do not consider things such as dietry laws still obligatory.

4. SDA consider that the regulations such as the dietary distinctions between clean and unclean meats are still required of Christians.

The clean/unclean distinctions are not part of the cerimonial laws. Part of those laws are repeated in the NT by Paul when giving instruction to the Gentile believers (blood, strangled, sacrificed to idols, etc.).

5. SDB agree with other protestants that Christs work was finished on the cross. The gift of eternal life, based on Gods grace and not our own works, assures a future free from condemnation. They reject the emphasis on and interpretation of the "investagative judgement"

5. SDA lay great stress on the third angels message Rev 14:9-12. They consider that Christ entered into the heavenly sanctuary in 1844 and that an investagative judgement of human lives is now going on in heaven. They may feel responsable to confess each sin and live a righteous life thus calling into question their assurance of Salvation.

Ok, I am going to disagree with at least half of this statement. We do not question our salvation based on errors we may make. We are saved through Grace. Living in a Sanctified life, we obstain from the things that God has commanded us not to do, and adhere to the things He commanded us TO do. The Investigative Judgment is not a judgment based on works. It is not a judgment of condemnation but of acquittal. The basis for final judgment is if your name is in the Book of Life. You cannot deny that the books will be opened, ALL of them, including those with our works in them. When the comparison is made with our 'works' the deciding factor will be what we did with our knowledge of Jesus. That decision or 'work' will be evident in the Book of Life. The focus on the 3 Angels messages (I wonder how many people get my screen name now) is something that defines the SDA as the end times Remnant. That message that must be spread throughout the earth, is one of a call of repentance from sin, and from affiliation with the false Religious system of Babylon. Judgment BEGAN at the house of God.

6. SDB approve of the Tithing model, but do not make it obligatory, they teach that as a faithfull steward of Gods creation a fair proportion of their income is given as a voluntary act of worship.

6. SDA hold Tithing of income to be obligatory (for the support of ministry), supplemented by offerings.

I am going to have to disagree with the way this is worded. "obligatory" has a kind of 'hafta, to get to' ring to it, and we just don't see it that way. The ministry MUST have financial support, and Paul told the early believers to lay aside in store our tithes and offerings once a week, to be given for the needs of the church. This is not a 'legalistic' method of supporting the ministry. Of all the churches I have ever attended, the SDA has the best financial structure I have ever seen. The amount of money that comes into one congregation does not determine how much the pastor makes. There was a baptist church by our house when we lived in AR, and my friend who went there said that she heard the pastor ask the deacon as he left the sanctuary with the plate 'how much did we get this week', because HIS salary WAS based on how much they got. This practice is a temptation for the pastor to focus on tithing, and 'bullying' of his congregation to give more. The SDA realized this through the 'authority' of EG White's writings on Church structure.

7. SDB in general believe that upon death the souls of the righteous go to be with God. They believe that the redeemed will be given spiritual and glorified bodies at the Ressurection.

7. SDA teach that both the body and the spirit fall asleep in death not to waken until Christ returns. Until that day the dead are (literally) unconcious.

Again the wording of this is all wrong. SDA's don't believe that the 'spirit' of a man sleeps. The Spirit that is in man, is GOD'S, and at death, it goes back to God. The body 'sleeps' a metaphorical sleep awaiting the resurrection and translation to immortality. No one is immortal but God. Making it impossible for man to live beyond death. We see it as very improbably that a mans soul could go to be with God, because man IS a Soul. He does not HAVE a soul.

There are a few more minor ones, but these appear to be the main differences.

Here is where we agree,

Both Denominations -
- Practice baptism of believers by immersion.
- Observe the Seventh Day Sabbath, the seventh day of the week.
- Express non liturgical worship
- Are concerned with religious freedom and the separation of church and state.

Check out more on the Seventh Day Baptists at http://www.seventhdaybaptist.org/

It appears to me that the only real similarities between the SDB's and the SDA's that are NOT in common with other protestant churches is the observance of the Seventh Day Sabbath.

The SDB's are just like regular Baptists in their theology, but keep the Seventh Day Sabbath.

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is how it seems to me based on the information presented.

God Bless

[ February 13, 2003, 12:57 AM: Message edited by: 3AngelsMom ]

 

Ben
Thanks for your extra ageement issues though, I did mean to put the Trinity in there, it is really an important one. But yes there are a number of similarities in belief and practice, a number of those being ones that Sunday churches can also identify with.

You are welcome..

Also your post reminds me of some other possible points of agreement.


The Virgin Birth.

The literal death of Christ on the Cross.

Substitutionary atoning sacrifice of Christ paying the debt for our sins.

The bodily resurrection of Christ.

The future, literal - physical second coming of Christ.

A literal period of 1000 years between the first and second resurrection listed in Rev 20.

Arminian?? (SDAs are more or less Arminian - what about SDBs?).



In Christ,

Bob

 

Ben WI would like to ask one thing, That concerns the 1844 investagative Judgement doctrine. This clearly is not one that comes from the Bible, but one that comes from the words of Ellen G White. It seems to me to be a fairly heavy doctrine, that has an effect on the beliefs of the church. I can not see how the bible even indicates that judgement will take place in such a way. How is it that that can be a doctrine of the Church concerning 1844, when it is not mentioned in the Bible. This is not meant to be a jibe at the SDA, it is one of the reasons why I was not keen to go to there meetings, even though I was convinced by there Sabbath teachings, some years ago.

First of all - Ellen White had "something to say" on all of our 27 Fundamental beliefs including the "Sabbath", "The Bible as the inspired Word of God", The need to have ALL doctrine based solely upon God's Word, The trinity, the Virgin Birth, etc etc.

But Adventists will never use a "quote from Ellen White" to establish any of those doctrines - or any doctrine ... not the "Trinity" or "the Sabbath" and not even the "Investigative Judgment".

Our model remains the same for the 1844 Investigative Judgement as it is for the Sabbath and the Trinity. It must be found "sola scriptura" - in the Bible alone.

The easiest "key" is Daniel 7. There you see a massive "judgment" with Myriads upon Myriads in attendance - the Ancient of Days takes His seat - the court sits, and the books are opened. AND as Daniel 7 states "Judgment is passed in FAVOR of the saints".

In Rev 14 we see a future point in time where there is an "announcement" that "the HOUR of His judgment HAS COME. And this happens in conjuction with a message that goes to those who are living on earth "to Worship Him who Made the Heavens and the Earth and the Seas and the springs of Water" according to Rev 14.

But what exactly is going on in that judgment? What is it deciding? The clearest picture that you get is in Romans 2:1-16.

More if you are interested.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Ben,

Just about every person I have ever encountered that is NOT SDA, has said the same thing.

What is up with this investigative judgment mess?

I wish they would have picked a better name for it. I guess back then, 'investigative' didn't carry the same connotations it does today.

It is actually more of a 'acquittal judgment'. What you stated about it being totally based on EGW's writings, is actually very false. I am going to assume that you have been misinformed.

The investigative judgment doctrine was orginally developed out of a prophetic understanding by the Millerites. They layed out all the dates, figured all the timing and such and came to 1844. They made a mistake though. They thought the Temple was earth. EG White, and about fifty other people decided to carry on and find out what really DID happen on that date. They knew they were wrong, after Jesus did not come back, about the nature of this prophecy, but they knew they were right about the timing.

I have done extensive study on this subject, for my own personal understanding, and I can honestly say that the doctrine of investigative judgment IS NOT what most people think it is.

It is a judgment of LOVE, of mercy and justice. Jesus comes into the Holy Of Holies in the Heavenly Sanctuary and WIPES OUT FOREVER all traces of the sins of the Saints. He then passes through to the Ancient of Days and the entire host of Heaven is present, where He opens the books. Those books contain my name, your name, Pauls name, Jonah's name. Every man, woman, and child that has ever and WILL ever call upon the name of the Lord is written in that book.

There are other books there. 2 More that I see. One with your entire life in it. Every word, every deed, every secret thing. Then there is one with just the things you did for Jesus. Just the things you did to serve Him. What you are doing now, to set up a church, is being written down. All those books are opened, and Jesus standing there in front of the entire family of Angels in heaven, and God the Father, He announces your fate. He reads the pages of your life, everything you did. He reads in joy, every thing you did for Him. He stands in front of the Almighty Father, and opens finally the book of Life. HE is the LIFE. He finds your name, and reads aloud "Ben, Son of God, repented and forsook his sin, and followed me".

As the entire assembly looks on. The Father of all. The Ancient of Days says for all to hear....

"PARDONED"

This is a judgment of you based on how you lived your life. It is the judgment that began at the house of God.

The 3 Angels of Revelation tell us 3 very important things. One of them is that the Hour of God's judgment HAS COME.

The Seventh Day Adventist Movement is God's chosen vessel for these messages. We herald these 3 messages to every ear that will hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

To fully understand this doctrine, one must fully understand the Sacrificial system of Israel. This phase of the Judgment is the fulfillment of the Day of Atonement in the yearly process that took place.

If we know that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Sacrificial laws, then there must also be a fulfillment of the day of Atonement.

The Pre-Advent Judgment is the Fulfillment of the Day of Atonement.

I hope that helped.

God Bless