The difference between Calvinists and Armenians (as I see it)

Dale , first please spell it Arminian . Those poor residents of Armenia are getting rather upset with you .

 

You list the Arminiams believe they come on their own and that is not what we believe.
Our belief is that we have a choice and choose to believe in Christ and by believing God sees us choose Him and believe so He calls us, and predestinates us to be conformed to the image of His Son (Christ like), Justifies us (by the blood of Christ) and Glorifies us which we haven't seen yet but God has for He sees all things and is Omnipresent and infinite. God is an all knowing and all seeing God. Salvation is of the Lord. Man can not save himself but it is now and always has been "faith" (to believe).

 

Dale - I don't think that is where we differ.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I thank God for the gospel of Christ.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

I know I would not be saved if not for Christ dying for my sins. I know I would not know of the gospel if God had not sent a preacher. I know the Holy Spirit of God was working on me when I finally was humbled enough to turn from myself and believe. I give all credit to God for my salvation.

I think the difference between us is:

You believe God selected certain people to save. I believe God offers salvation to every man. It is not God's fault if anyone rejects the gospel and goes to hell. See, if you believe God chose certain people to save, by default, you have to believe He chose certain people to suffer eternal punishment. I don't believe that.

 

I don't know, not offering man an opportunity for salvation...or giving him the "regeneration" (as you guys call it) needed to come, pretty much seals their fate. Sounds like "force" to me.

 

Here's one difference between Calvinists and Arminians:

Calvinists believe God chooses those whom he will save for reasons known only to him, not based on any human merit. God is the actor from beginning to end, complete with the regeneration by the Holy Spirit, bringing the lost person under the preaching of the gospel, illimuninating, drawing, convicting and the giving of repentance and faith.

Brother Bob has stated the Arminian/non-Calvinist position:
"Our belief is that we have a choice and choose to believe in Christ and by believing God sees us choose Him and believe so He calls us, and predestinates us to be conformed to the image of His Son (Christ like), Justifies us (by the blood of Christ) and Glorifies us which we haven't seen yet but God has for He sees all things and is Omnipresent and infinite. God is an all knowing and all seeing God. Salvation is of the Lord. Man can not save himself but it is now and always has been "faith" (to believe)."

That is, Arminians believe they have the power to elect themselves.

 

remove post!!!

 

So much for the fence!

 

It is not what Bob is said all along and "get it right or don't say it". I said we must believe never have I said we "elect" ourselves.
The whole Bible says "you must believe" if you guys don't want to accept what the Bible says then that is your problem.

 

The essence of Arminianism is the doctrine that Christ died for everyone, and not only for the elect. Historically it went under the name "general redemption," distinguishing it from the doctrine of particular redemption.

How this works itself out is a theological conundrum. It involves the question of volition itself: how can there be such a thing? How can God, for instance, decide one thing or another if he is eternal? Eternality would seem to lead logically to a static being, totally contrary to the one presented in Scripture.

Man, bearing the image of God, also has this mysterious quality called volition and the corresponding moral responsibility, unlike the animal kingdom. (No one considers a dog immoral if he kills a squirrel.)

One goal of theology is to explain one thing without contradicting another. Arminians start with general redemption. We can sincerely tell a bum on the street "God loves you and Christ died for you." We see a God in scripture who acts in space and time, makes decisions, and responds (as he sovereignly chooses) to man's actions. Because we stress these things, we wind up being anticalvinists.

There. That clears it up. Now we won't need to discuss Calvinism and Arminianism any more.
.
.
.
:smilewinkgrin:

 

Be careful that you don't confuse philosophy with theology .

 

Thank Pipedude;
What I said but no where near as eloquent.

 

Please explain yourself. Where do I say that?

 

Brother Bob and I have exchanged private messages about this quote, so I'll clarify for everybody. It is my one-line paraphrase of the Arminian position.

Brother Bob did not say that, and doesn't believe it. We both believe salvation is by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus.

The OP is not about salvation, it's about election. Arminianism holds that God foresees a man's choice, elects him in response. Technically, God elects, but is powerless to do so without man's choice. Choice, then election.

Dr. Bob would say that I am wrong. What say the rest of you?