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The Doctrine by which the Church stands or falls, Volume 2...

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D28guy

New Member
The other thread has been "closed" by the mods so I started this in case anyone wants to countinue, and also so I can respond to a post adressed to me.

Doubting Thomas,

I just came upon your post to me a few pages back from the last one.

You posted about 4-5 very long posts to me, with your comments in between these passages of scripture...

"
First, the APOSTLE PAUL:


"Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, but you stand [present tense] by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell severity; but towards you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off." (Romans 11:20-22)

"And you who were once alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and irreproachable in His sightif indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel…" (Colossians 1:21-23)

"Moreover brethren I declare unto the gospel which I preached to you, which also you receive and in which you stand [present tense], by which you are also saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2)

So you see, the Apostle Paul is clearly stating that we must indeed do "our part"—that is, we must "continue in His goodness", "continue in the faith", and "hold fast to the gospel" in which we are currently "standing" if we don’t want to be "cut off" (from Christ), but rather be presented holy and blameless in His sight, not having "believed in vain". But since Paul is stating that our remaining in the faith-and, indeed, in Christ—is contingent on something we must do, namely "to continue" and "hold fast", he must be a "double-talker" or "flip-flopper" by your ‘definition’.


"[God] who 'will render to each one according to his deeds'; eternal life to do those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek." (Romans 2:6-10)

"Beware, brethren [ie fellow Christians], lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God". (Hebrews 3:12)

"But also for this reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was purged of his old sins. Therefore brethren be even more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:5-11).

While acknowledging that God is able to keep us from stumbling (verse 24), Jude also commands the believers to "keep yourselves in the love of God" (verse 21).

"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin." (1 John 1:7)


"Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says I know Him and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth of God is not in him." (1 John 2:3-4)


They were from so many different posts, and long posts at that, that I just dont have time to post them all in there entirety and comment on every statement you made.

But those are the scripture passages you posted, and this comment of your sums up what you were trying to say...

"So you see, the Apostle Paul is clearly stating that we must indeed do "our part"—that is, we must "continue in His goodness", "continue in the faith", and "hold fast to the gospel" in which we are currently "standing" if we don’t want to be "cut off" (from Christ), but rather be presented holy and blameless in His sight, not having "believed in vain". But since Paul is stating that our remaining in the faith-and, indeed, in Christ—is contingent on something we must do, namely "to continue" and "hold fast", he must be a "double-talker" or "flip-flopper" by your ‘definition’.

OK, all I am going to say is that every single scripture you posted is well known to everyone on my side of this arguement. (the truth of justification through faith alone)

Those passages of scripture do not disturb our position in that slightest bit. They fit like a hand in a glove with the truth of justification through faith in Christ alone. You are doing the same thing that the Roman Catholic cult does so well, and that is to fail to interpret them in light of the whole of scripture. In light of the whole of scripture, we end up with those passages speaking to more than one issue, but they never speak to our works having any part in our justification.

Sometimes the negative consequence of falling away, or disobedience, is to lose the rewards that would have been ours in heaven, as opposed to gaining them. Sometimes the negative consequences are problems in this life that could have been avoided. Sometimes the negative consequences are the sorrow we experience after failing. Sometimes they speak to Gods chastisement. Somethimes the scriptures you posted speak of people who have never been truly born again. They have been imposters. Sometimes they encourage us to live properly because we are children of the Light...through faith alone...and its the only truly rewarding way to live. On and on and on it goes.

But they DO NOT teach that justication is "part God" and "part our being good"

We are justified in Gods eyes through faith alone. It could not possibly be any clearer.

Our "new life" is an overflow of what has happened by faith alone.

God bless,

Mike
 

Matt Black

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
D28guy said:
You are doing the same thing that the Roman Catholic cult does so well, and that is to fail to interpret them in light of the whole of scripture.

An accusation which can easily be made against your side of the fence too. So where does all this mutual mud-slinging leave us?
 

Bro. James

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Looking Through Muddy Water

Just a passing kibbitz: we are back to Sola Scriptura; see also Eph. 2:8-10, use the Duay-Confraternity if you like. It says the same in Swahili. Now what?

Why are we always at impasse? Maybe "Sola Cathedra"?

hola.

Bro. James
 
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Eliyahu

Active Member
Site Supporter
Bro. James said:
Just a passing kibbitz: we are back to Sola Scriptura; see also Eph. 2:8-10, use the Duay-Confraternity if you like. It says the same in Swahili. Now what?

Why are we always at impasse? Maybe "Sola Cathedra"?

hola.

Bro. James
Good Point !
I wonder why they do not try to use " Sola Ex-Cathedra " more often.
Is it because they don't like to make Infallible Statement? Is it because the Holy Spirit doesn't give them such chance? Has the Holy Spirit forsaken them?

What is the position of the "Mother Church" ? They have to answer.
 

Agnus_Dei

New Member
Eliyahu said:
Good Point !
I wonder why they do not try to use " Sola Ex-Cathedra " more often.
Is it because they don't like to make Infallible Statement? Is it because the Holy Spirit doesn't give them such chance? Has the Holy Spirit forsaken them?

What is the position of the "Mother Church" ? They have to answer.
What’s the position of Protestantism? If I gather a group of pastors representing the Church of Christ, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, SDA, Presbyterian into a room and ask them a simple question regarding water baptism and its affect in regard to the salvation of man…who out of the list above can speak collectively for the group?

ICXC NIKA
-
 

EdSutton

New Member
You ask any group of a 5 preachers :1_grouphug: any one question, and you'll get 8-10 different responses.
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AND -
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no two of them will be exactly the same. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Ed
 
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Matt Black

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
So what's the point, then? What's the point of sola Scriptura if you get five different answers? What epistemological value can it possibly have?
 

EdSutton

New Member
Matt Black said:
So what's the point, then? What's the point of sola Scriptura if you get five different answers? What epistemological value can it possibly have?
In my case, I was only making a humorous observation.
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And adding one more post, in order to 'up' my post count by 'one', trying to hit 5K, before another round of deletions knocks it back another 200. :laugh: :thumbs: :D

Ed
 

Eliyahu

Active Member
Site Supporter
Agnus_Dei said:
What’s the position of Protestantism? If I gather a group of pastors representing the Church of Christ, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, SDA, Presbyterian into a room and ask them a simple question regarding water baptism and its affect in regard to the salvation of man…who out of the list above can speak collectively for the group?

ICXC NIKA
-

So, do you mean your religion is the best because your religion coerce the faith upon the people even by the torture and killing?

Your religion doesn't allow the freedom of choice on the Faith, right?

This is why we still need the Sola Scriptura for the universal basis for the truth and practices.
 

Matt Black

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Except that, as Ed has pointed out (wittingly or otherwise), it is of no value epistemologically.
 

Bro. James

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The Point:

Sola scriptura is provided by God as the infallible standard of Truth. "Sanctify them in Thy Truth, Thy Word is Truth." Jesus said this to The Father regarding His disciples.

How does one get through the maze of this religious world? Jesus told Nicodemus, a well educated religious teacher, he needed to be born again to enter the kingdom. Nick had not a clue, even though well versed in the doctrines of men. The same is true today. One cannot understand Scripture nor separate The Word of God from the commandments of men in a state of unregeneration.
There are lost people in high places--even in Christendom.

If there is confusion, God is not the author. One quess as to the author. Sola Scripture still stands whether we believe it or not. God has said what He means--He means what He says. See: the Flood of Noah. The earth was destroyed save those in the ark--120 years after the announcement from God. Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. The religious world scoffed.

Nearly 2,000 years ago God said this world is going to melt with fervent heat--and everything in it. Many of us act as if He did not mean what He said. "Wait and see" will not provide the answer. Today is the day of salvation. We could join every "church" on this globe and still go to the pit.

Now what?

Bro. James
 

Doubting Thomas

Active Member
D28guy said:
Doubting Thomas,

I just came upon your post to me a few pages back from the last one.

You posted about 4-5 very long posts to me, with your comments in between these passages of scripture...

[here Mike listed some of these Scripture passages]

They were from so many different posts, and long posts at that, that I just dont have time to post them all in there entirety and comment on every statement you made.

Ah...I was wondering if you could find those posts that had become buried in what had somehow devolved into a debate about the LXX/Deutercanonicals. (I refer anyone interested to my responses on page 27 of the original "The Doctrine by which the Church stands or falls" thread). I had responded to a comment Mike made in response to Matt Black:

D28guy said:
After a wonderful few paragraphs extolling the greatness of Gods grace and faith based justification,(I applaud them for that) they turn right around and cancel it all out with the usual "all of this is yours as long as you do your part and maintain good works and obedience" error.

Rather than the truth that the fruit that follows justification is evidence of true salvation, they teach that the error the fruit is a contributing factor in being/staying justified.

Double talk. Speaking with forked tongue. Flip flopping

I had pointed out in my responses that if that's Mike's criteria for "double-talking" and "flip-floppin" then the Apostles might qualify based on their statements which I listed in my posts.

D28guy said:
But those are the scripture passages you posted, and this comment of your sums up what you were trying to say...

Doubting Thomas said:
So you see, the Apostle Paul is clearly stating that we must indeed do "our part"—that is, we must "continue in His goodness", "continue in the faith", and "hold fast to the gospel" in which we are currently "standing" if we don’t want to be "cut off" (from Christ), but rather be presented holy and blameless in His sight, not having "believed in vain". But since Paul is stating that our remaining in the faith-and, indeed, in Christ—is contingent on something we must do, namely "to continue" and "hold fast", he must be a "double-talker" or "flip-flopper" by your ‘definition’

Those are some but not all of the Scriptural passages posted, and that comment does sum up what I was trying to say about Paul's teaching. I also made similar comments regarding the other Apostles' teachings. However, I then looked at the statements of Christ Himself, after which I concluded by saying this:
Doubting Thomas said:
Now that we come to it, we have to reject the verdict that Paul, Peter, Jude, James, and John are “double-talking flip-floppers” because it appears the criterion offered by Mike ("all of this is yours as long as you do your part and maintain good works and obedience" error) actually fail in making such a verdict. The criterion fails because it contradicts the One who is Truth Himself—the One who said we must do our “part” by abiding in Him to bear fruit (or if not we’ll be cut off as branches) and who said that it is to those who have done good who will be given the resurrection of life (and those who have done evil, the resurrection of condemnation).

I therefore respectfully urge Mike and others who believe like he does to prayerfully consider what is actually “biblical” and what constitutes “double-talking” and “flip-flopping”. The Biblical verdict is that we are not justified by faith (assent to the truths of the Gospel) alone but by faith working through love, and for our faith to be working through love we must actively abide in the Vine to bear such fruit--for without Him we can do nothing--if we want to partake of the resurrection of life in His everlasting kingdom.

So picking up with your response....
D28guy said:
OK, all I am going to say is that every single scripture you posted is well known to everyone on my side of this arguement. (the truth of justification through faith alone)
Whether these are "well known to everyone" on your side of the argument or not, they certainly have not been adequately dealt with, if your explanations offered below are in anyway typical of how your side tries to deal with these passages in light of your position.

Those passages of scripture do not disturb our position in that slightest bit. They fit like a hand in a glove with the truth of justification through faith in Christ alone.
Not really, but do go on...

You are doing the same thing that the Roman Catholic cult does so well, and that is to fail to interpret them in light of the whole of scripture.
Actually the reverse is true. You and others who subscribe to "sola fide" can't find a single passage that states "one is justified by faith alone", and the passages you do offer as alleged evidence for this position fail to prove that when they are interpreted in their contexts and in light of the whole of Scripture. (Of course, it's convenient for you to continue bringing up the "Roman Catholic cult" bogeyman rather than to actually back up your assertions with evidence.)

Continued.....
 

Doubting Thomas

Active Member
Continuing on....

In light of the whole of scripture, we end up with those passages speaking to more than one issue, but they never speak to our works having any part in our justification.
Except that one of the verses that you conveniently left out (that I mentioned in the earlier thread) actually does speak about that issue:

“You see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. (2:24)

...and that in context James is in fact talking about SALVATION: “What does it profit, my brethren [ie CHRISTIANS], if someone says he has faith and does not have works? CAN FAITH SAVE HIM?” (James 2:14)

Sometimes the negative consequence of falling away, or disobedience, is to lose the rewards that would have been ours in heaven, as opposed to gaining them. Sometimes the negative consequences are problems in this life that could have been avoided.
Except that in several of the passages I offered, it's not mere rewards in heaven that are being lost or gained, it's 'Heaven' itself that's lost or gained!

Again, here's Peter:
“But also for this reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was purged of his old sins. Therefore brethren be even more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Peter 1:5-11).

And Paul:
"[God] who 'will render to each one according to his deeds'; eternal life to do those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek." (Romans 2:6-10)

And here's Christ Himself(another passage you neglected to include when quoting me above):
“Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.” (John 5:28-29)

Sometimes the negative consequences are the sorrow we experience after failing. Sometimes they speak to Gods chastisement.
So is the resurrection of condemnation given to those "who have done evil" mere "chastisement"?

Also look at Hebrews again:
For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation that will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:26-29)

So is " certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation that will devour the adversaries" mere "chastisement"???

Somethimes the scriptures you posted speak of people who have never been truly born again. They have been imposters.
Except Paul and Jesus both speak of people ("branches") who are currently in Christ actually being "cut off" from the Vine (Christ)--just as the unbelieving Jews were (Romans 11: 19-22)--if they don't continue/abide in Him:
“Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, but you stand [present tense] by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell severity; but towards you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.” (Romans 11:20-22)

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch.(John 15:6)

“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away” (John 15:2)

So these passages are speaking of the consequences for those in Christ if they don't continue to abide in Him. In other words, these aren't people "who have never been born again"


Sometimes they encourage us to live properly because we are children of the Light...through faith alone...and its the only truly rewarding way to live.
“But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7)
Not only is living as children of light "truly rewarding", our being cleansed by the blood of Christ is contigent on us presently walking in the Light.

“Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says I know Him and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth of God is not in him.” (1 John 2:3-4)

Notice John doesn't say here "if one doesn't keep His commandements...well...he really should because that's the only truly rewarding way to live." Rather, John calls that one a "liar" who claims to know God yet doesn't keep His commandments and that "the truth of God is not in him"

On and on and on it goes.
Indeed it does. :BangHead:

We are justified in Gods eyes through faith alone. It could not possibly be any clearer.
A point which you have repeatedly failed to demonstrate, and which is actually falsified by Scripture.
 

D28guy

New Member
Agnus Dei,

"If I gather a group of pastors representing the Church of Christ, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, SDA, Presbyterian into a room and ask them a simple question regarding water baptism and its affect in regard to the salvation of man…who out of the list above can speak collectively for the group?"

Thats interesting.

Back when I was lost, and experiencing conviction, God caused many different persuasions of born again people to cross my path and witness to me. Baptists. Pentecostals. Southern Baptists. Church of Christ. Nazarene. Charismatics. Cambellite non-denominationals, etc etc.

They had different ways of articulating truth, and different things they emphasised. But I heard the same gospel from all of them.

The same truth that I was lost and dead, Christ personally...not "church" (God forbid) was my answer, and I could be born again and secured for heaven through faith in Christ.

Regarding water baptism, the only thing about that issue is that is essential that it is to be practiced, and it is symbolic of the already attained new birth. Nothing more. Beyond that...when? How? Immersion? Sprinkling? etc...each believer or group is free to their convictions.

God has ordained it to be that way...

"4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.

6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;[a] and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.

8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.

9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.

10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.[c]

11 For it is written:


“ As I live, says the LORD,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way."

Thats the freedom Gods people have in Christ. To those caught in the tentacles and bondage of Rome (and likeminded organisations) that freedom can be intimidating and frightening. Difficult to deal with.

But it is Gods way. And its a beautiful thing to behold.

We have been set free from bondage, and delivered into grace and freedom...

"8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.

9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?

10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.

11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

12 Brethren, I urge you to become like me, for I became like you. You have not injured me at all.

13 You know that because of physical infirmity I preached the gospel to you at the first.

14 And my trial which was in my flesh you did not despise or reject, but you received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

15 What then was the blessing you enjoyed? For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have plucked out your own eyes and given them to me.

16 Have I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth?

17 They zealously court you, but for no good; yes, they want to exclude you, that you may be zealous for them.

18 But it is good to be zealous in a good thing always, and not only when I am present with you.

19 My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you,

20 I would like to be present with you now and to change my tone; for I have doubts about you.

21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?

22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise,

24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—

25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—

26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written:


“ Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”[c]

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.

29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.

30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”[d]

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free."


Grace, peace and FREEDOM,

Mike
 
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D28guy

New Member
Doubting Thomas,

"A point which you have repeatedly failed to demonstrate,..."

I, and so many others, have demonstrated it scripturally over and over and over again. And we will continue to do so. The truth extinguishes the darkness of scriptural error.

"and which is actually falsified by Scripture."

Nooooo, the *attempt* is made to pervert Gods truth by counterfiet groups like the Romish church and others. But Gods truth stands like a brilliant shimmering light in the midst of great darkness.

"For it is by grace that you are saved, through faith. And that not of yourself, it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest anyone shgould boast."

(and oh how we love to boast. We just have to take some credit so that we can say that (((WE EARNED IT!!!))). God help us)

And by the way, some people think that passages ends there, but it gets even better...

"...for we are His workmanship, created in Christ for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them"

What a beautiful thing it is. The works arent even ours...they are HIS works! God tells us that the changed life we experience flows out of the justification through faith alone that has occured, and the works are prepared beforehand for us! We arent *grunting* and *sweating out* our new life!

No. The good works manifest themself almost on their own as Gods "prepared beforehand" new life flows through us to others.

What a great God we serve!!! \o/

Mike
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Doubting Thomas said:
Continuing on....

Except that one of the verses that you conveniently left out (that I mentioned in the earlier thread) actually does speak about that issue:

“You see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. (2:24)

...and that in context James is in fact talking about SALVATION: “What does it profit, my brethren [ie CHRISTIANS], if someone says he has faith and does not have works? CAN FAITH SAVE HIM?” (James 2:14)
To those who take a position against "salvation is by faith alone," there are typically two childish responses.
1. The Bible never says that salvation is "by faith alone," as if it has to have that exact wording to express the idea. This is really a ridiculous point in logic.
2. And second, But look at James 2:24 where it does say "not by faith alone," a verse taken far out of context as demonstrated above. I am not going into that right now for it requires more of a lengthy response which even if I were to give DT would not accept.
3. The truth of the matter, even when given is often never addressed but simply avoided.
For example many times I have gone phrase by phrase through Eph.2:8,9 demonstrating how every phrase in those two verses scream "faith alone." But the opponents would rather not respond to such an exposition and just avoid it.
Mike has quoted dozens of verses that are beyond refutation demonstrating that salvation is by faith alone. They go unrefuted.
As far as the few verses that DT has mentioned in the past couple of posts every one of them can be shown how either they have been quoted out of context or without context to make them seem to say something other than what they mean. If you want to go through them one by one I would be glad to, and demonstrate that there is not one verse in the posts above that contradicts the position of "faith alone." However I would recommend that one would start a separate thread on What does James 2:24 teach.
BTW, I am not at home right now and am not able to get to a computer as often as I like. Therefore my posts will be farther apart than ususal, but I will do my best.
 
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