D28guy said:
Doubting Thomas,
That...this weird differentiating of "meritorious" vs "in love" works...is classic Catholic nonsensical goobledegoop that they are forced to concoct in order to somehow find some way to squeeze some "good works" into Gods justification...wich of course is through faith alone.
Okay, so here's a challenge for you, Mike:
Find ONE verse which clearly states we are "justified by faith
alone."
Just ONE.
While you are looking (in vain) for such a verse, I'll go ahead and cite the only verse in the Bible that has "justification" and "faith
alone" and "works" all together in one clear statement by our Lord's brother (who was the chief shepherd in the early Jerusalem church)....
"You see then that a
man is justified by works and
not by faith alone." (James 2:24)
Now if you want to accuse James of "
concocting" some "class
nonsensical Catholic
gobbledegoop", go ahead, but I must warn you that you are on some dangerously thin ice in doing so. Rather, the Lord's brother here is in fact accurately handing down the deposit given to him from Christ, teaching the truth when he states that faith without works is dead...and a dead faith ain't gonna ultimately save or justify no one!
Here again are the words of Christ Himself in case you missed it before:
"Do not marvel at this: for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth--those
who have done good to the
resurrection of life; and those
who have done evil to the
resurrection of condemnation." (John 5:28-29).
(Not saying you are Catholic of course, I have no idea. But you are using arguments that are *classic* Romish arguments.)
Oh, I
am certainly catholic...just not "Romish". :tongue3:
(see my sig below)
Works, whether begun by faith or not, or "working through love" or not, has absolutly nothing to do with our justification. We are justified by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
Again, it's the "faith
alone" part that's not Scriptural.
You err in ignoring the context of much of Paul's epistles in which he's repeatedly addressing the fact that it's not necessary to keep the Jewish law (the Torah) in order to be a Christian. (This was in response to the Judaizers and those of judaizing tendencies who were insisting at that time that one
did have to keep the Torah to be a Christian.) Paul in his polemics is
primarily considering the works
of the Law, and particularly the
external signs thereof--ie, circumcision, Jewish feastdays/Sabbaths; dietary restrictions, etc. That is why he makes it clear in his letter to the Galatian church that it's not the presence of absence of these markers of Torah that matters for a Christian, but a
faith in Christ which
demonstrates itself in loving obedience:
"For
in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision
avail anything, but
faith working through love" (Galatians 5:6)
And lest one
thinks that Paul teaches that God
doesn't consider
any of our
"works" (in general) at His
final judgement of mankind, here is this clear statement to the contrary in his epistle to the Romans:
"[God] who
'will render to each one according to his deeds';
eternal life to do those
who by patient
continuence in
doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those
who are self-seeking and
do not obey the truth, but
obey unrighteousness--
indignation and wrath,
tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who
does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but
glory, honor, and peace to everyone who
works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek." (Romans 2:6-10)
In teaching that God will
'render to each one according to his deeds', Paul is of course just being consistent with Christ's own clear statement in John 5:28-29 quoted above. So if you have a problem with the notion of God ultimately rendering eternal life (the resurrection of life") to those who
have done good, don't shoot the messenger--take it up with the Lord and His apostles who all clearly taught this truth.
