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The Double Election of Scripture

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Aug 19, 2020.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The Double Election doctrine can be compared with the Arminianism articles of Remonstrance, and with the points of Calvinism (TULIP) using the acronym ELECT.

    The five articles of remonstrance
    1. God has decreed to save through Jesus Christ those of the fallen and sinful race who through the grace of the Holy Spirit believe in Him, but leaves in sin the incorrigible and unbelieving. (In other words predestination is said to be conditioned by God's foreknowledge of who would respond to the gospel)
    2. Christ died for all men (not just for the elect), but no one except the believer has remission of sin.
    3. Man can neither of himself nor of his free will do anything truly good until he is born again of God, in Christ, through the Holy Spirit. (Though accused of such, Arminius and his followers were not Pelagians.)
    4. All good deeds or movements in the regenerate must be ascribed to the grace of God but his grace is not irresistible.
    5. Those who are incorporated into Christ by a true faith have power given them through the assisting grace of the Holy Spirit to persevere in the faith. But it is possible for a believer to fall from grace.

    The five points of Calvinism (TULIP)
    1. That fallen man is totally unable to seek God, understand spiritual things, or trust fully in Christ. (Total Spiritual Inability)
    2. That God's electing purpose was not conditioned by anything in man (Unconditional Election)
    3. That Christ's atoning death was sufficient to save all men, but Christ died only for the elect (Limited Atonement)
    4. That the gift of faith, given by God's Holy Spirit, cannot be resisted by the elect (Irresistible Grace)
    5. That those who are regenerated and justified will persevere in the faith (Perseverance of the Saints)

    The five points of Double Election (ELECT)

    1. Elections - God chose His Redeemer individually (Christ) and all those Christ would redeem corporately before the foundation of the world, the elections before time; and then subsequently chooses believers individually during their lifetime based on crediting their wholehearted faith in Christ, the second election.

    2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

    3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

    4. Cultivated call - Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly.

    5. Trust in Faith - Only by persevering in faith can a believer be sure of salvation, because God protects the faith of His chosen ones.
     
  2. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    There is no such thing in scripture.
    MB
     
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  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I expected "taint so" posts, and I did not expect anyone to actually consider Biblical Election as found in scripture.

    1. Elections - God chose His Redeemer individually (Christ) and all those Christ would redeem corporately before the foundation of the world, the elections before time; and then subsequently chooses believers individually during their lifetime based on crediting their wholehearted faith in Christ, the second election.

    2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

    3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

    4. Cultivated call - Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly.

    5. Trust in Faith - Only by persevering in faith can a believer be sure of salvation, because God protects the faith of His chosen ones.
     
  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Van, you are persistent in your false ideas regarding faith. Despite being shown your error in multiple threads, you still persist.

    At this point, I can simply hope that most people continue to ignore your claims.
     
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  5. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    There is no such thing as corporate election. Whether you believe election is based on foreknown faith or a simple predestinarian choice, it's always spoken of as individual.

    Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.​

    Sometimes I feel like Christians fear mystery too much. Sometimes we just need to sit back, believe revelation, and be okay with not fully understanding it.
     
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  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The claim there is "no such thing" as corporate election is twaddle. Anytime a group is chosen based on a common attribute, the election is corporate.

    The view does not question that each and every believer is also chosen individually, hence double election doctrine.

    The elections presented were not based on foreseen faith, or foreseen individuals unconditionally, so your objects are deflections.

    As far as Acts 13:48, the idea is that all who agreed with Paul's direction for eternal life, accordingly believed.

    Care to actually address the Double Election Doctrine?
    Our corporate election is taught by Ephesians 1:4, and our individual election is taught by 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
    Romans 4:4-5 and Romans 4:23-24 address God crediting our faith as righteousness.
     
  7. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps your arguing there's no difference between corporate and individual election. If that's the case, you're confusing and conflating terms as their generally used.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I defined corporate election Sir. And I said there were two separate elections, one corporate and one individual.
    So you post I say there is no difference. How can we discuss Biblical Doctrine if you do not actually address the view presented?


    1. Elections - God chose His Redeemer individually (Christ) and all those Christ would redeem corporately before the foundation of the world, the elections before time; and then subsequently chooses believers individually during their lifetime based on crediting their wholehearted faith in Christ, the second election.

    2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

    3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

    4. Cultivated call - Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly.

    5. Trust in Faith - Only by persevering in faith can a believer be sure of salvation, because God protects the faith of His chosen ones.
     
  9. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    I think mainly because you present tedious complicated views that are difficult to follow, which change terms as they're normally understood. Corporate and individual election, generally are understood as two opposing views.

    Election: Individual vs. Corporate | Monergism
     
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  10. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Funny the thing that does most of the damage to a christian is his own imagination. You do the same Calvinist do take part of a verse and mix it with what ever you imagine. Then wala you have something new to teach LOL
    MB
     
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    LOL, my view is not "tedious" or complicated, but your response is non-germane.

    Does the fact of our corporate election "exclude" individuals from individual election? Nope - so a strawman diversion.
    Did I change any "term?" Nope - so a strawman diversion.
    I say we were elected corporately and individually and you understand that as two opposing views. LOL
    Did I say election is always corporate? Nope - so a strawman diversion.

    How can biblical election be discussed when non-germane assertions are posted one after another?
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    First, you say I am presenting something "new." New to you perhaps, but the scriptural basis is more than 2000 years old.
    Is the interpretation of Ephesians 1:4 as a corporate election new? Nope. Christ was chosen individually as God's Redeemer, and in choosing Him as Redeemer, God chose corporately all those Christ would redeem, therefore He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world.
     
  13. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Yes, it is. You're redefining terms. That's the first step in destroying dialog.
     
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  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    LOL, my view is not "tedious" or complicated, but your response is non-germane.

    Does the fact of our corporate election "exclude" individuals from individual election? Nope - so a strawman diversion.
    Did I change any "term?" Nope - so a strawman diversion.
    I say we were elected corporately and individually and you understand that as two opposing views. LOL
    Did I say election is always corporate? Nope - so a strawman diversion.

    How can biblical election be discussed when non-germane assertions are posted one after another?
     
  15. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    LOL. Yes it is.
     
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  16. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    But it actually says that as many as were ordained ( appointed ) to eternal life, believed.

    Therefore, their agreement ( belief ) with what Paul said was based on their being ordained to eternal life, Van.;)
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Note, no effort to address the doctrine, but calling it names, and changing the subject are once again on display.
     
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    You have no clue as to an understanding of Acts 13:48. The word translated "appointed" in the verse actually refers to an agreement by mutual consent.
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    We were chosen before creation corporately and chosen during our lifetime based on our faith in the truth individually.
    Therefore the following presents the actual biblical doctrine of election for salvation, the ELECT doctrine.

    1. Elections - God chose His Redeemer individually (Christ) and all those Christ would redeem corporately before the foundation of the world, the elections before time; and then subsequently chooses believers individually during their lifetime based on crediting their wholehearted faith in Christ, the second election.

    2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

    3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

    4. Cultivated call - Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly. Acts 13:48 indicates those who accepted the gospel's requirements believed.

    5. Trust in Faith - Only by persevering in faith can a believer be sure of salvation, because God protects the faith of His chosen ones.
     
  20. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Yes, Van's doctrine. Not actually biblical doctrine.
     
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