The early Church was not Pre, but Postmillenial. ???

[Calypsis4]

And there you go, claiming that beliefs that are within the bounds of orthodoxy, are heretical.

You could've led with that and saved us both some time.

God bless.

My, you are stubborn in this issue. I have given you more than enough scripture and historical evidence that the scriptures teach a future rapture of the saints, tribulation, and visible, literal return of Christ to Jerusalem and the millenial kingdom age is yet future with Jesus sitting upon the throne of David, etc. but you have turned your nose up to it all.

P.S. claimed 'orthodoxy' that is clearly not scriptural is heresy.

Also, you did NOT answer the very pointed questions I posed to you in post #18.

I am done with debating you on this issue. I still give you best wishes.

 

[supersoldier71]

Whoa!

You throw a phone book out and expect what?

Ok, you asked for it:
Time, is clearly a malleable concept when dealing with God. It is less so when God deals with us. You're exegesis means that most of the text of Revelation was useless to the initial audience, and would have remained useless to most of the believers of the Church Age who themselves lived outside of the specific period referenced by each of your seven hypothetical churches. Bad exegesis.

Second: Yours is the flimsiest of straw men: I am not, will not, nor will I ever that Christ is the Lamb, slain from before the foundations of the universe were lain. And further, that proves nothing about your point. It is, also, orthodox.

Third: you ignore--completely ignore--the desecration of the Temple by Antiochus Epiphanes IV, which happened after Isaiah, and the final destruction of the Second Temple c.70 AD. You either ignore these or undervalue the significance.

Fourth: questioning my salvation because I don't believe in a Pre-Trib rapture? Let's make this as clear as possible, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, Second Person of the Trinity, died to pay the price for MY personal sins, and He is currently reigning, on His throne in Heaven as my Lord.

Done.

Which is what leads me to conclude that perhaps the Christian ethic of love might, in fact, be absent from your existence.

I wonder how that could be?

 

[Calypsis4]

Oh, well. For others of you who think that I cannot answer supersoldiers errors, this is for you and not for one who is determined to not receive the joy, comfort, and extreme excitement in anticipation of the coming of our Lord at the rapture, here goes.

He said,

Ok, you asked for it:

What an arrogant attitude. He/she hasn't proven a single point yet.

Time, is clearly a malleable concept when dealing with God. It is less so when God deals with us. You're exegesis means that most of the text of Revelation was useless to the initial audience, and would have remained useless to most of the believers of the Church Age who themselves lived outside of the specific period referenced by each of your seven hypothetical churches. Bad exegesis.

No. He isn't thinking clearly and is in fact thinking backwards. The book of Revelation is totally useless to us in the present if in fact it was fulfilled in or around the A.D. 70 time frame. What are we to do with it since apparently all those things: the 7 trumpts, 7 vials, 7 seals, 3 woes, Antichrist, mark of the beast with the 666 on the right hand & forehead, world government, the demons out of the bottomless pit, AND most of all....the visible, physical appearance of Christ as He promised in Rev. 1:7 has happened in the first century after all! He and those like him apparently believe in an invisible 2nd coming...like the SDA's & Jehovah's Witnesses. None of those things happened.

There was no 'initial' audience. SOME (& only some) of the prophecies in Matt. 24 & Luke 21 were fulfilled when the 'Days of Vengeance' began (approx A.D. 70) but since the Jews did not repent and accept Jesus as their Messiah God took away their temple and gave testimony they could have had to the church, the bride of Christ. In His own words, the kingdom was postponed.

Matt. 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

That is exactly what happened. The Jews did not repent and turn to Christ then....but they will turn to Christ when He returns visibly to Jerusalem in that great and coming day.Christ took the calling of God upon the Jews to be the oracles of God's holy word and He gave it to His espoused bride, the church. That doesn't mean that God has forsaken Israel, for the Abrahamic covenant is still in effect to this day.

Second: Yours is the flimsiest of straw men: I am not, will not, nor will I ever that Christ is the Lamb, slain from before the foundations of the universe were lain. And further, that proves nothing about your point. It is, also, orthodox.

Huh? Is he so angry at me that he won't take the time to proofread his own words in order to be clear in his statements?
Read what I just underlined above. Does it make sense to you, fellow readers? Notice also he did not take the time to quote me word for word as I have done for him.

Third: you ignore--completely ignore--the desecration of the Temple by Antiochus Epiphanes IV, which happened after Isaiah, and the final destruction of the Second Temple c.70 AD. You either ignore these or undervalue the significance.

This proves his sense of timing is absolutely confused. Jesus wrote about the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24 several centuries after what Antiochus Ephanies desecrated the temple. Holy cow, what an error!

I will answer the other things when I return from a doctors appt. at the VA.

 

[Calypsis4]

Which is what leads me to conclude that perhaps the Christian ethic of love might, in fact, be absent from your existence.

You need worry about your own heart attitude as it is clear that you both deny the scriptures and deliberately turn a blind eye at any argument that offends you. Yet I ask why are you so offended at the idea that the Lord will come for us, call for us and meet with us in the air as He promised on that yet coming wonderful day? (I Thess. 4:17). Answer: because you do not love His appearing.

2 Timothy 4:8
Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

I am done here. Please post others now.

 

[Iconoclast]

Mt21...says the kingdom is taken from.....and given to.....not postponed.