Featured The ECF were Pretribulational

Hokey Dina! Did I just begin this thread?

It seems there are some who really want to discuss this so I have decided to open this thread.

Before we get into it, I would like to highlight the fact that I am in no way teaching that the ECF did not believe that the church will exist on earth during the tribulation as well. Therefore, if you start claiming that I am teaching this, you need to learn how to listen. Yeehaw cowboy.

And now, without further ado:

Shepherd of Hermas:

"You have escaped from great tribulation on account of your faith, and because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast. Go, therefore, and tell the elect of the Lord His mighty deeds, and say to them that this beast is a type of the great tribulation that is coming. If then ye prepare yourselves, and repent with all your heart, and turn to the Lord, it will be possible for you to escape it, if your heart be pure and spotless, and ye spend the rest of the days of your life in serving the Lord blamelessly" (Book First, Vision Fourth, Chap. II).​

Cyprian:

"Lo, the world is changing and passing away, and witnesses to its ruin not now by its age, but by the end of things. And do you not give God thanks, do you not congratulate yourself, that by an earlier departure you are taken away, and delivered from the shipwrecks and disasters that are imminent?
We should consider, dearly beloved brethren — we should ever and anon reflect that we have renounced the world, and are in the meantime living here as guests and strangers. Let us greet the day which assigns each of us to his own home, which snatches us hence, and sets us free from the snares of the world, and restores us to paradise..." (Treatises of Cyprian, Treatise VII, 25-6).​

Justin Martyr:

"Wherefore God delays causing the confusion and destruction of the whole world, by which the wicked angels and demons and men shall cease to exist, because of the seed of the Christians, who know that they are the cause of preservation in nature. Since, if it were not so, it would not have been possible for you to do these things, and to be impelled by evil spirits; but the fire of judgment would descend and utterly dissolve all things, even as formerly the flood left no one but him only with his family who is by us called Noah" (Second Apology, Chap. VII).
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Iranaeus:

"Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons 'as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance — in fact, as nothing;' (Isa_40:15) so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up [raptured!] from this, it is said, 'There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.' (Matt 24:21) For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption" (Against Heresies, Book V, Ch. XXIX, 1).
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You are probably wondering, how the Church Fathers could be both pretribulational and believe that the church exists on earth during the tribulation: my solution, is that, since the ekklesia existed in the (greek) septuagint, and since the tribulation will resume the mosaic dispensation, it would logically follow that the same ekklesia that existed in the mosaic dispensation must be resumed. The difference being that the ekklesia of the mosaic dispensation was not the ekklesia of Christ, whereas, the ekklesia to exist in the tribulation, will be the ekklesia of Christ. This is why the Church Fathers say that the ekklesia will exist on earth, and yet still claim pretribulationalism.

 

My view, is that those saved, ie the ekklesia of Christ, will be in heaven, and some Jews and gentiles who are saved, like the 144000 will also be a part of the ekklesia of Christ.
The septuagint contains the word ekklesia. Dispensationalism teaches that the 70th week of Daniel continues the mosaic dispensation.


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You should study bible prophecy. Take a look at how things are fulfilled in the Bible. The Bible shows that, there are partial fulfillments of prophecy. That's not really the subject of this thread though.

 

You should read this post that I just responded to JonC with.

 

You haven't read the OP? Strange. Normal people usually read OPs and then respond to what they read. Or maybe you've read it but wish to somehow erase the fact that Iranaeus explicitly teaches a pretribulation "catching up" (rapture) of Christians?

 

Hippolytus (post 70AD) looks for a future fulfillment of the Antichrist.

"[the apostles] indicated the day of the consummation to us, and signified beforehand the day of the apostate that is to appear and deceive men at the last times" (A Discourse by the Most Blessed Hippolytus, Bishop and Martyr, on the End of the World, and on Antichrist, and on the Second Coming of Our Lord Jesus Christ, II).

"what else is this burning wind from the east, than the Antichrist that is to destroy and dry up the veins of the waters and the fruits of the trees in his times" (ibid., IV).

etc.​

Can you, on the other hand, give us any quotation by the ECF that proves that they believed that the great tribulation happened in the past and that the Apocalypse was already fulfilled?

 

Hold up. Are you really saying that no prophecy was ever fulfilled before Christ?

 

Did you know that Jeremiah 31:15 was fulfilled in the exile? How come Matthew (2:17-8) tells us it was also fulfilled in his day? Even (postmillennial) Strong tells us,

"Certain prophecies apparently contain a fulness of meaning which is not exhausted by the event to which they most obviously and literally refer. A prophecy which had a partial fulfillment at a time not remote from its utterance, may find it's chief fulfillment in an event far distant" (Augustus Strong, Systematic Theology, Vol. II, Philadelphia: Griffith and Rowland Press, 1907, p. 138).​