Featured The Eternal Purpose of God in Christ

And sovereign God giving man the ability and the responsibility to choose undoes a lot of the ways we three dimensional thinkers try to box in an omni-dimensional being.

 

The eternal purpose of God in Christ is spelled out in his high priestly prayer (John 17).

John 17:5 (AV)
5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

 

Really? Did you not read this?

Christ most assuredly died for the whole world, unless you want to pull the standard Calvinist move and say "the whole world" is merely a euphemism for "the Elect."

Again, really?

You actually believe God does not want to save all men? You think He does not want all men to come to repentance? You think He did not die for the wins of the whole world? Do we have different Bibles?

 

So you think Christ died for each and every person who ever existed and shall exist. Christ did not pray for the each and every. He died for the elect alone. He prayed for his disciples who his Father gave him "out of this world." And he prayed (and consequently died for) those who will believe in him.

Does he accomplish all that he desires? The answer is of course. All are not saved. His intent was to save his own and them alone.

Do you think he wants to save those he blinds and hardens? Do you think he wants to save those who he does not reveal himself to?

Do you think he wanted to save all those already in perdition before he was even incarnated?

See above.

 

Mon ami, you need to do a Greek word study on the word used for 'propitiation'. It means appeasement. Then appeasement means to satisfy, appease, placate, pacify God's wrath. God poured out His holy wrath on His Son as He was atoning for our sins. Now, if God's wrath is appeased, satisfied, pacified, placated, then no one goes to hell, monsieur.

God's love covers the 'whole entire world', oui. But it is not bestowed upon everybody who ever lived. Did Christ die for those who were already dead and in hell, monsieur? So then He did not die for everybody, the whole world, mon ami.

Oui, vraiment.

You take that one passage and try to make it an absolute, monsieur? You have it that God is the biggest failure ever. Look at two verses you guys misapply to fit your schema:

All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.[2 Cor. 5:18,19]

On the surface, it appears to be universal in application. But hold la onions, monsieur.' It states 'not counting people's sins against them.' Now, no sin goes unpunished, mon ami. So if God is not counting them against them, where did they go? The Atlantic ocean? Non. The Pacific, Indian, Artic oceans, Mediterranean sea? Under a snow bank? In a deep, dark cave? Non. They went to Christ, our Sinbearer, as He atoned for them on the cross by This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.[Acts 2:23]

Christ also had distain for the Pharisees as He told them You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.[Jn 8:44] Then Jesus uttered these words right before He was betrayed "The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.” If God truly desired to save everybody, everbody would be saved, monsieur.

 

Sometimes, Rippon, I'm not even sure we worship the same God. The God made evident through the lens of Calvinism is a duplicitous deity that demands we repent and desires all to be saved, yet never affords them the ability or opportunity to be saved or to repent. He is shown as a creator more than willing to damn the majority of His creation to eternal torment, simply because He did not choose them out earlier.

The Bible tells us that God desires all men to be saved, and commands all men to repent, yet the Calvinist says God must make us repent before we can actually repent. That makes God's statement a dubious one at best, seeing as He is calling for us to repent, and then, per your ideology, He never grants the ability to repent, and then blames us for not doing something He never gave us the ability to do in the first place.

That, quite simply put, is not the God I find evident in the scriptures. The God found in Calvinism is very much a vicious monster. I say that with a clear conscience, because I don't believe Calvinism's God is the same God found in scripture.

By and large, in my experience, it is the Calvinist camp that has to twist wording and scripture to make it conform to their ideology. They have to say things like "well, 'the world' doesn't actually mean 'the world,' it only means the Elect."

 

And now I remember why I left this place to begin with. Apparently unless you believe God hates the vast majority of His own creation and desired to damn them to torment for eternity you don't really have a hold on the scriptures. :BangHead:

Yep, I'll show myself out.

 

God does not reveal himself to everyone. You have chosen to invent your own God apparently.....many do that. When you turn from scriptural truth you go into darkness......you come back and launch this ill fated attack to no avail.

You post quite foolishly in the last 4-5 posts I see....have you been drinking??

Apparently you are unable to welcome spiritual truth....might as well leave, no one is buying what your selling.

Well that is on you...Rippon worships the God of the bible who you hate and call vile names. we would recommend you repent. Your man centered ideas are not the gospel at all...it is sickly sentimentalism and emotional drivel.

 

Do not leave, mon ami.

Did Christ died for those who died before He came in the flesh?

 

If I was drowning and you tried every possible way to save me, yet I drowned, would you call it a 'smashing success'? I would surely hope not. :laugh:


Well, what about the likes of Adolph Hitler, Genghis Khan, Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Ted Bundy, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Vlad Dracula(Vlad the Impaler), Joseph Stalin, Ivan the Terrible? They were some of the cruelest people who ever lived. Yet, in your schema, you feel better because God 'tried' to save them. These guys are the epitome of This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.[John 3:19,20]

 

I am sure that Tony worships the one true God of the Bible--Jesus Christ: the second person of the Triune Godhead, the Creator of all things, etc.

He sent a savior to save all the world, and did not fail in sending that saviour to all the world. He came didn't he? Your allegation is wrong. Do you also deny the virgin birth?

Again, a false allegation, or at the very least conclusion. He has all power in heaven and in earth (Mat.28:18). He told Peter to put up his sword for he could have requested His Father to send 12 legions of angels (one legion has 6,000). He is all powerful; omnipotent. Please do not deny his omnipotence.

God is just and fair. That is his nature. Even Abraham said:
"Shall not the God of all the earth do right (be just and fair)?"
You seem to deny this truth, and his attribute of justice and fairness to mankind. He gave to man the characteristic of justice and fairness, and made man in the image of God. But you make God into a cruel monster after the image of Calvin. That truly is sad.

Again, not true. The non-Cal believes more in the sovereignty of God than the Cal. The Cal limits the sovereignty of God and in so doing weakens both the character and strength of God.
In God's sovereignty the non-Cal views God as One who has the authority to allow man to have a will to choose or reject Jesus Christ. This does not violate his sovereignty but strengthens it. In allowing man, within the boundaries of his sovereignty to choose to receive Christ, God's sovereignty becomes greater than the limited sovereignty the Calvinist allows God to have. He is afraid that God will "lose control." He (in the Cal's eyes) really isn't omnipotent.

This is not true, since he believes all men has a choice to choose his own destiny and does not have a predetermined destiny before the foundation of the world (also called reprobation). This Calvinistic doctrine is one of the most horrible doctrines ever invented by man, and goes contrary to the character of God.

God fails at nothing. If the Calvinist does not understand Scripture because he approaches it with predetermined false pretexts whose fault is that? Certainly not that of the non-Cal!

No need to answer. See above.

 

PT's meanderings follow the tracks of John Wesley at his worst.

PT : My post 5 was short and to-the-point.

You objected to it most strenously.

Why then didn't you simply address it, line-by-line?

When you just show venom, it exposes not only your heart --but your biblical inadequacy.

 

Why do you make stupid and sinful remarks like that? You do this habitually.

Yet another example of your immoderate conduct.

You just can't help yourself.

You are the court jester.

Another nonsense remark which you have become noted for.

 

I assess a (stupid) statement and ask myself why it would be made in the first place. A person who denies that Christ would be a Saviour for mankind would be questioning his ability to save? On what grounds? His deity? His perfect manhood? The incarnation is a good place to start in questioning those beliefs. Tony never questioned that Christ was a Savior. Someone else did. What other related beliefs are being questioned. Not stupid or sinful.

Whose conduct is in question here? The ability and power of Christ to save was being questioned by your fellow Calvinist? That is sick!

Why the false allegations here? Who can't help themselves?
Again, the power of Christ is being questioned, and the accusation being made that Christ is a failure? Preposterous! Do you also look on Christ as a failure, as your fellow Calvinists do?

Not I, do you even read what is being posted?
Do you understand the sovereignty of God, really? I don't think so.
Or is it, you don't like my explanation simply because I am a non-Cal explaining sovereignty to you a Cal. It is beyond your dignity. Is that the real problem?

You are not following this discussion are you?
God fails at nothing. That was my remark.
So you believe God fails. Tell me more about your failing God.
Thus was my further remark that he really isn't omnipotent if, in your opinion he fails.

 

Protestant did not question the Saviorhood of Christ --no Calvinist has.

Calvinists believe that Christ came to actually secure salvation for a host of people known as the elect and many other designations in God's Word. We don't believe in hypotheticals as you and your like-minded buddies do.

It's no false allegation. You said that Calvinists believe in a monster God.

Those kind of infantile comments coming from you over the years is sickening.

Properly :"Why can't you help himself?" You revert to childish behavior in your posts much of the time.

Yet another exhibit of your conduct.

You had said :"The non-Cal believes more in sovereignty of God than the Cal."

That's why I said in reply that you are the court jester. If anything, non-Cals here complain that Calvinists over-emphasize the sovereignyty of God.

You had said that in the eyes of Calvinists God is not really omnipotent. And therefore in reply I stated that you are noted for your nonsensical remarks.

And you claim to have been in the ministry for more than 40 years? Your unbecoming conduct on the BB is infamous. You need to change your ways. You can't help yourself --only God can.

 

DHK - Thanks, but it's alright. Since I recently made comments in opposition to Calvinism I've been called a drunk (Icon questioned if I had been drinking), I've been told that I "hate God" (Icon again), and I've been told that I have a venomous heart and I've inadequately studied the Word. I'm okay with this. They said much worse about my Lord and Savior.

I do worship God, and I worship the God that I find revealed in scripture and I find in the guidance of the Holy Ghost. I do not see the God Calvinism claims to see, but according to the Cals that because I'm not sound in my Biblical study. Which is what it seems so often to come down to with them. "You don't know God because you haven't properly studied." It doesn't matter how much of your life you've dedicated to studying the Word and praying for the Spirit's guidance, unless you believe in their God you simply have not studied enough. Thankfully not all Cals act this way.

 

The attack given here demonstrates why one should ignore your posts completely. Like our election just under way in Canada, they consist mostly of "attack ads," mean and ugly.