ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
Finding a Universalist. A reply to Rodger Tutt.
I found this man via a discussion board and read his story, as told by himself, and found the following on this website. He is an advocate of universalism today, and apparantly was once greatly bothered by the doctrine of eternal damnation. Apparantly, according to his testimony, he suffered mental breakdowns which he says were the result of this doctrine and became an agnostic. He then says he read a lot of books, listen to a lot of teaching tapes, and became a convinced universalist.
I found his example interesting of what the Scriptures referes to as false teachers. "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." 2 Peter 2:1 What is ironically sad about his story, is that it was his fear of eternal damnation that he claims led him to the doctrine of universalism, but it will be his doctrine of universalism that will bring him to eternal damnation, unless he repents.
I found a few statements of his from his website. He claims no one can refute his teaching. Of course, this is not true, but let the reader judge.
Apparantly Rodger is referring to Romans 9 to refer to chosen vessels of dishonor. His claim is regarding those who feel motivated to defend the doctrine of endless hell. In other words, Rodger begins writing to his readers with character assassination. Pretty typical. But it is "regardless as to how righteous the rest of their life appears to be."
This is contrary to the Scriptures brethren, which teach "If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him." 1 John 2:29 and again, "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." 1 John 3:7
And who are the ones chosen to salvation and those are chosen vessels of dishonor according to Romans 9? "What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith." Romans 9:30 It those who believe into the Lord Jesus who have the righteousness which is of faith, that is, the righteousness of Christ. Rodger wants to make the distinction on the doctrine of eternal damnation when the Scripture makes it on the doctrine of justification.
Just because Rodger suffered mental instability because of his own philosophical issues does not mean that all mankind are equally affected. It is true that others have struggled with these things, but not to the point of a mental breakdown like Rodger did. Furthermore, what is the greatest manisfestation of God's grace? Is it not the salvation of sinners from His wrath? God's purpose in election is, "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ." Ephesians 1:10-12 The elect of God do not go stark-raving mad, we go to worship Him who redeemed us by His blood.
This is a claim that can be judged of all who have the ability to read the Bible. Does the Bible teach universal transformation inlcuding fallen angels? "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Revelation 20:10 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Rev 20:15
Actually, He won't because He has already revealed His doctrine in Holy Scripture. Do you now see the folly of departing from the Scriptures? God's grace is indeed undefeatable. But His redemption is made for the elect alone.
This is a mix of good teaching and false teaching. It is good because it recognizes the limitation of the will of man to desire. It is good because it seems to highlight the sovereignty of God. But it is false because, while God works all things together for the good of certain ones, it for His elect. "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will." Eph 1:11 And again, "And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." Romans 8:27-29
Again, this is an attempt at the doctrine of Providence and Sovereignty, but ends up making God the author of sin. It ignores the use of second causes. A better statement of such things is, "God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree." 2nd LBCF.
Effectively, Rodger has made "wrong attitudes" the unpardonable sin. His claim is that they cannot be forgiven. His statements regarding the atonement of Christ appear to be a denal of penal substitution. He also misunderstand discipline and punishment. The Lord correct His chosen. But He punishes the wicked. The elect will never be punished for their sins because Christ was punished for them. And so God the Father has justified them. "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus." Romans 3:24 "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." Romans 5:9 "Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth." Romans 8:33
Again, the last statement is a misunderstanding of the Sovereignty of God. Rodger is effectly using a form of fatalism to excuse himself from his responsibility before and Almighty and All Holy God. He also here is exalting his opinion to be an accurate refelection of biblical teaching. Which means, this is his statement of faith, or creed.
God has always held men accuntable to His word. Consider,
"Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God." Matt 22:29 To whom did Jesus speak this? To the Saddusees who knew and read the Scriptures. And they were rebuked for not understanding it and teaching contrary to it. Rodger seems to want to lay the blame of his interpretation upon the Sovereignty of God, or else give weight to them for the same reason.
I found this man via a discussion board and read his story, as told by himself, and found the following on this website. He is an advocate of universalism today, and apparantly was once greatly bothered by the doctrine of eternal damnation. Apparantly, according to his testimony, he suffered mental breakdowns which he says were the result of this doctrine and became an agnostic. He then says he read a lot of books, listen to a lot of teaching tapes, and became a convinced universalist.
I found his example interesting of what the Scriptures referes to as false teachers. "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." 2 Peter 2:1 What is ironically sad about his story, is that it was his fear of eternal damnation that he claims led him to the doctrine of universalism, but it will be his doctrine of universalism that will bring him to eternal damnation, unless he repents.
I found a few statements of his from his website. He claims no one can refute his teaching. Of course, this is not true, but let the reader judge.
Apparantly Rodger is referring to Romans 9 to refer to chosen vessels of dishonor. His claim is regarding those who feel motivated to defend the doctrine of endless hell. In other words, Rodger begins writing to his readers with character assassination. Pretty typical. But it is "regardless as to how righteous the rest of their life appears to be."
This is contrary to the Scriptures brethren, which teach "If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him." 1 John 2:29 and again, "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." 1 John 3:7
And who are the ones chosen to salvation and those are chosen vessels of dishonor according to Romans 9? "What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith." Romans 9:30 It those who believe into the Lord Jesus who have the righteousness which is of faith, that is, the righteousness of Christ. Rodger wants to make the distinction on the doctrine of eternal damnation when the Scripture makes it on the doctrine of justification.
Just because Rodger suffered mental instability because of his own philosophical issues does not mean that all mankind are equally affected. It is true that others have struggled with these things, but not to the point of a mental breakdown like Rodger did. Furthermore, what is the greatest manisfestation of God's grace? Is it not the salvation of sinners from His wrath? God's purpose in election is, "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ." Ephesians 1:10-12 The elect of God do not go stark-raving mad, we go to worship Him who redeemed us by His blood.
This is a claim that can be judged of all who have the ability to read the Bible. Does the Bible teach universal transformation inlcuding fallen angels? "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Revelation 20:10 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Rev 20:15
Actually, He won't because He has already revealed His doctrine in Holy Scripture. Do you now see the folly of departing from the Scriptures? God's grace is indeed undefeatable. But His redemption is made for the elect alone.
This is a mix of good teaching and false teaching. It is good because it recognizes the limitation of the will of man to desire. It is good because it seems to highlight the sovereignty of God. But it is false because, while God works all things together for the good of certain ones, it for His elect. "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will." Eph 1:11 And again, "And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." Romans 8:27-29
Again, this is an attempt at the doctrine of Providence and Sovereignty, but ends up making God the author of sin. It ignores the use of second causes. A better statement of such things is, "God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree." 2nd LBCF.
Effectively, Rodger has made "wrong attitudes" the unpardonable sin. His claim is that they cannot be forgiven. His statements regarding the atonement of Christ appear to be a denal of penal substitution. He also misunderstand discipline and punishment. The Lord correct His chosen. But He punishes the wicked. The elect will never be punished for their sins because Christ was punished for them. And so God the Father has justified them. "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus." Romans 3:24 "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." Romans 5:9 "Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth." Romans 8:33
Again, the last statement is a misunderstanding of the Sovereignty of God. Rodger is effectly using a form of fatalism to excuse himself from his responsibility before and Almighty and All Holy God. He also here is exalting his opinion to be an accurate refelection of biblical teaching. Which means, this is his statement of faith, or creed.
God has always held men accuntable to His word. Consider,
"Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God." Matt 22:29 To whom did Jesus speak this? To the Saddusees who knew and read the Scriptures. And they were rebuked for not understanding it and teaching contrary to it. Rodger seems to want to lay the blame of his interpretation upon the Sovereignty of God, or else give weight to them for the same reason.