The "FIRST resurrection" - THE Focus of the NT saints?

[Eliyahu]

We see the 1260 years in Rev 11 as 1260 days and as 42 months.... this is the dark ages persecution of the saints by the RCC.

We see it again in Rev 12 -- following the time when Christ was taken to heaven.

Rev 11, 12, 13 and Dan 7 all provide details about these SAME 1260 years of persecution of the NT church for the majority of the time that it exists in the 2000 years after Christ.

It is identified as 1260 prophetic days, 42 months and "Times Time and 1/2 time"

Intersting, many sites talk about 1260 days as 1260 years.

http://dedication.www3.50megs.com/dan/1260.html

I must tell you that I have studied on this far more, with many dialogues with the people.

I already asked you what is the 500 years since the Ascension of Jesus.

1. Woman travailed and gave birth to Jesus : ( I hope you know the woman doesn't mean Mary) - 5 BC

2. Ascension of the Manchild - 30 - 33 AD

3. Woman fled into the wilderness - verse 6 ( if this is 538 AD, then what happened to her during 30-538 AD?)

4. Woman disappear ( 1798 AD?) - If it happened in 1798, what happened during 1798 and 2000 AD? Do the Remnants of the Seed struggle with the Dragon?

Your exegesis makes me think about how Ellen White made the wrong prophecy.

I must tell you again that I have made a lot of search and study on this layout of 1260 days.

Read the whole chapter 12 carefully again, comparing to ch 11 as both are dealing with the same period, 1260 days during which 2 Witnesses turned the water into the blood, then finish their ministry and die but are not buried, then ascended up to the heaven after 3.5 days.
Please note 11:1-2 belongs to ch 10.

 

[BobRyan]

In the 500 years since the ascension of Jesus we have the torment by pagan Rome (Hadrian's horrible persecution of Jews and Christians comes to mind). However recall that in the 4th century all persecution of Christians by pagan Rome ends.

The text points to persecution starting WITH the resurrection of Christ and continuing to this very day -- but it is the 1260 years that are most grevious because these are christian-against-Christian and in fact they last MUCH longer than the pagan Rome onslaught.

BTW - thanks for posting that link THAT was a gold mine! -- you are a "scholar and a gentleman" as they say.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Read the whole chapter 12 carefully again, comparing to ch 11 as both are dealing with the same period, 1260 days during which 2 Witnesses turned the water into the blood, then finish their ministry and die but are not buried, then ascended up to the heaven after 3.5 days.
Please note 11:1-2 belongs to ch 10.

You have shown that you apply it to the life of Christ - but Rev 12 and 13 and Dan 7 all show it to apply AFTER the fall of Pagan Rome.

How do you reconcile that fact?

 

[Eliyahu]

The text points to persecution starting WITH the resurrection of Christ and continuing to this very day -- but it is the 1260 years that are most grevious because these are christian-against-Christian and in fact they last MUCH longer than the pagan Rome onslaught.

Bob

But the whole chapter of 12 covers the entire period. If we read the chapter carefully, 1260 days meant the entire period after the Ascension until the End of the Grace Period before the Great Tribulation.

And the Great Tribulation is mentioned in Daniel 7.

After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. 8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. 23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. 24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

Revelation 11:7
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them

Do you see the similarity between Dan 7:21 and Re 11:7?

Dan 7 talks about the 4th Kingdom, and the 4th Kingdom may be like this:


Roman Empire-Papacy in Rome

RCC is nothing but the extension of Roman Empire which subjugated Frank Reich, Holy Roman Empire ( ended in 1806), Third Reich( attempted), EU.

Eventually The 4th Kingdom will consist of 3 things mainly:
- EU economically
- Russia militarily
- RCC spiritually

These will be the key components, but we can hardly define the whole aspects of the Babylon as it also subjugate the Persia, Lybia, Sudan, EU countries as we read Ezekiel 37-39, plus many followers even among the Protestants too.

 

[BobRyan]

Is it any wonder that John would show them in the "FIRST" resurrection, Paul would declare the "dead in Christ rise FIRST" and that Peter would tell all who read the Bible to focus completely on that event where Christ "comes again"??

Even Christ speaks of it in John 14 as THE focus event for the church.

In 1Thess 4 Paul tells us to focus on certain end-time facts regarding the "DEAD in Christ" who are "raised FIRST" so that we DO have hope and are NOT like "those who have NO hope".

Peter tells us to "Fix our hope COMPLETELY" on that future event.

John tells us Christ has gone away but "Will come AGAIN to RECEIVE us unto Himself in order that WHERE He is THERE we will be ALSO".

And in Rev 20 John goes into detail telling us about the "FIRST resurrection" for those over whom "The SECOND DEATH has NO power" -- the "blessed and holy ones".

The question is -- why is THE focus of the NT saints as described in scripture - so confusing to Christians today?

The Dead in Christ rise FIRST.

The FIRST resurrection is that of the "Blessed and holy" over whom "the second death has no power".

This could not be any more obvious friends.

What say you?

in Christ,

Bob