The Fourth Republican Debate

[InTheLight]

No one is commenting on it, so I figure I'll start a thread.

Once again, IMO, Rubio and Cruz were the winners. They actually answered questions and gave forceful answers. Carson also had a strong showing (for him.) Kasich was shrill, constantly interrupting others and demanding to be heard. Fiorina had a script, "take our government back" and stuck to it. Bush made a strong statement at the outset of the debate, "I would reverse every single executive action by Obama my first day in office" and then turned milquetoast. Paul scored some points. I thought the worst performance was given by Trump. The guy sounds like a tape recorder, "Make America great. I can beat China. I know how to make deals. Build the wall. We don't win anymore. We are a country of laws. I can do ____________, believe me, I can do it."

But the laugh out loud moment for me was when Trump was challenged by Kasich about how his plan to deport 11 million illegal immigrants wouldn't work.

"But for the 11 million people, come on, folks. We all know you can't pick them up and ship them across, back across the border. It's a silly argument. It is not an adult argument. It makes no sense," Kasich said.

Trump responds: "Let me just tell you that Dwight Eisenhower, good president, great president, people liked him. "I like Ike," right? The expression. "I like Ike." Moved 1.5 million illegal immigrants out of this country, moved them just beyond the border. They came back. Moved them again beyond the border, they came back. Didn't like it. Moved them way south. They never came back. Dwight Eisenhower. You don't get nicer. You don't get friendlier. They moved a 1.5 million out. We have no choice. We have no choice."

I'm sitting in my chair watching how Trump is trying to spin the deportation of 11 million men, women, and children into being a nice gesture! Dwight Eisenhower, supreme commander of the European Theater of Operations, prosecuting the war against the Nazis, invading France, etc.---WAS A NICE GUY! LOL!

 

[Zaac]

I didn't feel like starting the thread.Biggrin AN aside before my comments. What is up with Carly Fiorina and those head motions? I thought she was gonna hurt herself.

I don't think anyone won. There was too much trying to get the audience to cheer and not enough direct answers about what they will do.

 

[InTheLight]

I didn't feel like starting the thread.Biggrin AN aside before my comments. What is up with Carly Fiorina and those head motions? I thought she was gonna hurt herself.

I don't think anyone won. There was too much trying to get the audience to cheer and not enough direct answers about what they will do.

I don't know about Fiorina's head shakes.

I thought all of them gave a fairly detailed tax plan, given they only had 90 seconds to do so. I thought it interesting that Kasich and Bush, both having jobs with banking firms, couldn't answer the questions about what to do if Bank of America was going to fail. Kasich's idea of picking among depositors who would get to keep their money and who would lose it has to be the most asinine statement I've heard from a politician in a long time. "You've got to do something", he said.

I was surprised that both Paul and Cruz went after the Federal Reserve, Cruz even calling a return to the gold standard and the moderators didn't follow up with questions.

 

[Zaac]

Have you noticed how Trump never gets specific? He just says he has a plan "And I can tell you that several people or many, many people like it a lot or very much".

Well, if you've told it to those people, tell it to us.

But, taxes too high, wages too high, we're not going to be able to compete against the world. I hate to say it, but we have to leave it the way it is. People have to go out, they have to work really hard and have to get into that upper stratum. But we can not do this if we are going to compete with the rest of the world. We just can't do it.

What on earth does that mean? Has he been to China and Vietnam? Are we supposed to adjust people's wages to compete with the 60 or 70 dollars per month that a lot of folks in manufacturing make in these countries?

It's particularly a problem in the black community. Only 19.8 percent of black teenagers have a job, who are looking for one. You know, that -- and that's because of those high wages. If you lower those wages, that comes down.

I could have sworn he said this wrong because the unemployment amongst black teens is in the 40%+ range.

And he said he wouldn't raise it the minimum wage . But I thought that in an earlier debate he said he would. I'll have to check.

And why does Trump keep saying he has only spent his own money when his campaign filings show that is not the truth?

 

[Rob_BW]

Is Trump talking about tariffs?

And Cruz was my top pick, but I can't go along with any gold standard shenanigans.

 

[Use of Time]

I can't stand Cruz. His repeated attempts to shut down the Government as a means of forcing change is tiresome. Taking a stand on the hardship of others while avoiding any hardship of you own is pretty loathsome.

 

[InTheLight]

Is Trump talking about tariffs?

Cruz was talking about his tax plan, a 16% flat tax on businesses, but for businesses that export products you don't pay the tax, if you are an importer you pay the tax. Is that what you were thinking of?

And Cruz was my top pick, but I can't go along with any gold standard shenanigans.

I'm warming up to Cruz. Business as usual in Washington isn't going to cut it. He's consistently taken a stand against the same old, same old. I think that's why I also like some stuff that Fiorina says. But yeah, the gold standard is kind of a crazy idea. It would limit growth to the amount of precious metals we possess or could find in the future, among other problems.

 

[InTheLight]

I can't stand Cruz. His repeated attempts to shut down the Government as a means of forcing change is tiresome. Taking a stand on the hardship of others while avoiding any hardship of you own is pretty loathsome.

I understand this feeling. There are some issues where a government shutdown as a means to force a change is a valid strategy. However, this strategy has been misused recently.

 

[Use of Time]

I understand this feeling. There are some issues where a government shutdown as a means to force a change is a valid strategy. However, this strategy has been misused recently.

I mistakenly rated this post as funny just so you know. I was going to hit the like button.

It's tough to support the shutdown strategy considering it failed with regards to the ACA. A lot of us lost us a hefty chunk of our paycheck with nothing to show for it the last time it happened. I work for the Navy's Engineering Command with most employees being conservative. Even they were getting pretty irritated with the latest threat. Imagine working overtime and weekends from July to September in order to make sure critical construction projects were awarded to support the Sailors and Marines including working to about midnight on September 30 only to be thanked with a potential furlough the morning of October 1st. It is beyond irritating

 

[Rob_BW]

I can't stand Cruz. His repeated attempts to shut down the Government as a means of forcing change is tiresome. Taking a stand on the hardship of others while avoiding any hardship of you own is pretty loathsome.

As someone who's been on the receiving end of the furloughs, I'd rather be furloughed myself than have my kids grow up in a nation strangled with debt.

 

[Rob_BW]

Is that what you were thinking of?

Naw, I was typing in response to Zaac's Trump quote. Seemed like he (Trump) was maybe hinting at bringing back high tariffs.

 

[InTheLight]

I mistakenly rated this post as funny just so you know. I was going to hit the like button.

No worries.

It's tough to support the shutdown strategy considering it failed with regards to the ACA. A lot of us lost us a hefty chunk of our paycheck with nothing to show for it the last time it happened. I work for the Navy's Engineering Command with most employees being conservative. Even they were getting pretty irritated with the latest threat. Imagine working overtime and weekends from July to September in order to make sure critical construction projects were awarded to support the Sailors and Marines including working to about midnight on September 30 only to be thanked with a potential furlough the morning of October 1st. It is beyond irritating

Yes, there was no way that Obama was going to back off his signature piece of legislation, the Republicans knew they didn't have the votes going into it. What Cruz did was to stand on principle (and a bit of grandstanding) which is great, but not when it harms so many others and you don't get the desired outcome.

 

[carpro]

I can't stand Cruz. His repeated attempts to shut down the Government as a means of forcing change is tiresome. Taking a stand on the hardship of others while avoiding any hardship of you own is pretty loathsome.

Not a real surprise here. Far as I can tell, you don't like any conservative. Cruz hasn't tried to "shut down" the government even once, that I know of. Sounds like a DNC talking point. Anyone that tries to keep Obama from spending taxpayer money to fund abortion or illegally change immigration laws is trying to "shut down the government". Not everyone falls in line with that view.

 

[Use of Time]

As someone who's been on the receiving end of the furloughs, I'd rather be furloughed myself than have my kids grow up in a nation strangled with debt.

I understand the sentiment to a degree but understand the furloughs had nothing to do with debt. The first was with regards to funding the ACA and the second was for the budget involved with planned parenthood. Even other Republicans criticized this and said the issues should have been attacked separately. If we truly want to stave off the debt, it's going to have involve a period of isolationism with regards to conflict in the middle east. I don't know if either party can make that happen at this point in time.

 

[Use of Time]

Not a real surprise here. Far as I can tell, you don't like any conservative. Cruz hasn't tried to "shut down" the government even once, that I know of. Sounds like a DNC talking point. Anyone that tries to keep Obama from spending taxpayer money to fund abortion or illegally change immigration laws is trying to "shut down the government". Not everyone falls in line with that view.

Not true, I can probably get behind Carson or Rubio, maybe even Carly. At this point it just can't be Trump, Bush or Cruz.

 

[carpro]

Have you noticed how Trump never gets specific?

I wouldn't say "never",but in general, Trump is running a sound bite campaign. Short on specifics

But a lot of candidates do that for as long as they can. They want to hear the "specifics" of others first, so they can snipe at them. Even political parties do the same. Democrats, in particular are well known for that tactic. Especially when they are in the majority.

 

[carpro]

Not true, I can probably get behind Carson or Rubio, maybe even Carly. At this point it just can't be Trump, Bush or Cruz.

OK , so when did Cruz try to "shut down" the government?

 

[carpro]

I mistakenly rated this post as funny just so you know. I was going to hit the like button.

So change it. It's allowed.

 

[Use of Time]

OK , so when did Cruz try to "shut down" the government?

He championed the one in 2013 and the attempted one in 2015. Boehner was able to steer off the latest one during his farewell tour.

 

[carpro]

He championed the one in 2013 and the attempted one in 2015. Boehner was able to steer off the latest one during his farewell tour.

My view is that Obama shut down the government in 2013 and then deliberately targeted his cuts where they would do the most damage and hurt the most people. and would have done so again in 2015.

Boehner was just too big a coward to let him do it. Cruz can't do it by himself. Only the president can, and did.