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The Fruits of Calvinism

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Martin, Apr 22, 2006.

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  1. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    What are the fruits of Calvinism? Two came to my mind just recently.

    1. The hymn "Amazing Grace" (written by Calvinist John Newton).

    2. The ministry of Spurgeon.

    Those are two major fruits of Calvinism...I am sure many others could be listed.

    In an article titled "Ten Effects of Believing in the Five Points of Calvinism", John Piper lists some "fruits" of accepting what is commonly called "Calvinism". I think this is a good article.

    His main points are:

    1. These truths make me stand in awe of God and lead me into the depth of true God-centered worship.

    2. These truths help protect me from trifling with divine things.

    3. These truths make me marvel at my own salvation.

    4. These truths make me alert to man-centered substitutes that pose as good news.

    5. These truths make me groan over the indescribable disease of our secular, God-belittling culture.

    6. These truths make me confident that the work which God planned and began, he will finish – both globally and personally.

    7. These truths make me see everything in the light of God's sovereign purposes – that from him and through him and to him are all things, to him be glory forever and ever.

    8. These truths make me hopeful that God has the will, the right, and the power to answer prayer that people be changed.

    9. These truths reminds me that evangelism is absolutely essential for people to come to Christ and be saved, and that there is great hope for success in leading people to faith, but that conversion is not finally dependent on me or limited by the hardness of the unbeliever.

    10. These truths make me sure that God will triumph in the end.

    I refer you to John Piper's article "Ten Effects of Believing in the Five Points of Calvinism"
     
    #1 Martin, Apr 22, 2006
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I would rather read the "ten effects of believing in the Lord Jesus Christ".
     
    #2 webdog, Apr 22, 2006
  3. genesis12

    genesis12 Member

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    Amen, webdog. Isn't it interesting: "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound ... I once was lost, but now I'm found." And this: "These truths reminds me that evangelism is absolutely essential for people to come to Christ and be saved." These two examples clearly show that it's all because of God's amazing grace, not His prior selection of those who don't have a prayer.
     
    #3 genesis12, Apr 22, 2006
  4. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    Ten effects of believing in the Lord Jesus Christ:

    1. It makes me stand in awe of God and leads me into the depth of true God-centered worship.

    2. It helps protect me from trifling with divine things.

    3. It makes me marvel at my own salvation.

    4. It makes me alert to man-centered substitutes that pose as good news.

    5. It makes me groan over the indescribable disease of our secular, God-belittling culture.

    6. It makes me confident that the work which God planned and began, he will finish – both globally and personally.

    7. It makes me see everything in the light of God's sovereign purposes – that from him and through him and to him are all things, to him be glory forever and ever.

    8. It makes me hopeful that God has the will, the right, and the power to answer prayer that people be changed.

    9. It reminds me that evangelism is absolutely essential for people to come to Christ and be saved, and that there is great hope for success in leading people to faith, but that conversion is not finally dependent on me or limited by the hardness of the unbeliever.

    10. It makes me sure that God will triumph in the end.
     
    #4 whatever, Apr 22, 2006
  5. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    [​IMG] Amen, whatever, that's what I'm talking about!
    See, we aren't that different...give or take a few "all's", "world's", and "whoever's" :D
     
    #5 webdog, Apr 22, 2006
  6. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    Glad I could help! :D
     
    #6 whatever, Apr 22, 2006
  7. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    It is God's Amazing Grace which leads to his prior selection of those who don't have a prayer.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #7 Joseph_Botwinick, Apr 22, 2006
  8. genesis12

    genesis12 Member

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    Then, Joseph, we all are saved by grace thru faith. None of us has a prayer. "Prior selection" is the selection of those who choose to believe, to enjoy eternal existence with God. Those who choose not to believe will suffer eternal separation. Whosoever will, however, may come. God does not say that "Joe, Tom, and Mary, living on Main Street, can't be saved, no matter what. I'm just going to save Bill, Ed, and Sally, across the street. Sorry, Joe, Tom, and Mary. You never had a prayer, I don't care how many times you fall on your face before God. You're eternally zapped."
     
    #8 genesis12, Apr 22, 2006
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Correct. Only the elect will.

    [​IMG]

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #9 Joseph_Botwinick, Apr 22, 2006
  10. genesis12

    genesis12 Member

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    Good grief. What an abysmal outlook. Case closed.
     
    #10 genesis12, Apr 22, 2006
  11. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==Which of course is what "Calvinism" is all about. The power of God in salvation.

    Martin.
     
    #11 Martin, Apr 22, 2006
  12. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==Of course you ignore the FACT that John Newton, the author of Amazing Grace, was a STRONG Calvinist. And, btw, God's election of individuals is an important part of salvation (Rom 8:29-30, etc).

    Martin.
     
    #12 Martin, Apr 22, 2006
  13. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    genesis12:

    ==Ok, enough with the silly examples. Let's get Scriptural (yes, that is a shameless play on words).

    While it is true that "whosoever will" is the call (Rev 22:17) there is another side of that coin (a side ignored by Arminians). God offers salvation to all men but only the elect, those God has chosen, will accept the offer of salvation. How do I come to that conclusion? There is plenty of Biblical evidence however I will confine my arguments here to three passages.

    1. Jesus stated that it is those the Father gives Him who will come to Him.

    "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me" Jn 6:37a

    So, what is step one? The Father gives the person to Jesus. What is step two? The person comes to Jesus.

    You see Arminians have it backwards. The fact is that the election of God determines who will come to Christ (see also Jn 10:26-27).

    2. The Lord Jesus only gives eternal life to those the Father has given Him.

    "even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life" Jn 17:2

    Those the Father gives to Jesus will come to Jesus in faith.

    Who does Jesus give eternal life to? Those who believe in Him (Jn 3:16).

    Who are those who believe in Him? The elect (those the Father has given Jesus (Jn 6:37, 17:2), His sheep (Jn 10:26-27)).

    So the election of God is not determined by man's response to the Gospel (see Rom 8:29-30). What is the election of God determined by? "The kind intention of His will" and by "His will" (Eph 1:1-14).

    3. Only those the Father draws to Jesus can come to Him.

    "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day" Jn 6:44

    Those the Father has not given to the Son will not come to the Son (they will not be saved). However those the Father gives to the Son will come to the Son and recieve eternal life from Him, they will never be lost, and they will be raised up by Jesus on the last day (Jn 6:37-39).

    So then, God does determine who will be saved. If you deny that you are denying the clear teaching of Holy Scripture. How much clearer can it get? Jesus and Paul both made it very, very clear. People don't like that because it strikes against our pride. It tells us there is nothing we can do and we don't like that. However Scripture is clear that salvation is a gift from God (Eph 2:8-9). There is not one thing we can do to recieve it. Only those the Father has given to Jesus, only those the Father draws to Jesus, will come to Him in faith, and will be given eternal life. The rest of humanity will remain lost.

    That is the clear teaching of Scripture.

    Martin.
     
    #13 Martin, Apr 22, 2006
  14. JackRUS

    JackRUS New Member

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    Martin.
    Then tell me exactly why God draws some and not others, and why does the Father give Jesus some folks but not others? With Scripture please since you know the "clear teaching of Scripture".
     
    #14 JackRUS, Apr 23, 2006
  15. JackRUS

    JackRUS New Member

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    It is God's Amazing Grace which leads to his prior selection of those who don't have a prayer.

    Joseph Botwinick     </font>[/QUOTE]Joseph.
    You are a Messianic Jewish believer are you not?

    Did not God choose all of Israel in the OT as His elect? Kindly explain to me exactly then why He chose to save only some of these folks and blind the others if they are all elect?
     
    #15 JackRUS, Apr 23, 2006
  16. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    1. I am Jewish by racial heritage (at least part).

    2. I was raised as a Southern Baptist all my life and have been a Christian since the 9th grade.

    3. I fashion the Israeli flag more so out of support for political Israel and because I feel a connection with my heritage. It has little to say about my religious background of the past or for today (i.e. I am not a Messianic Believer in the sense of being part fo Jews for Jesus, etc...). Am I making sense here?

    and

    4. As to your question...man, I have no clue why God chose to do that. What do you think? To me, it doesn't matter why God chose a certain way because I believe he is a just God and whatever he does is right. For me, it just isn't my place to question his judgement or his actions.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #16 Joseph_Botwinick, Apr 23, 2006
  17. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Why ask why? Just trust the Holy, righteous, and sovereign Lord God Almighty.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #17 Joseph_Botwinick, Apr 23, 2006
  18. JackRUS

    JackRUS New Member

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    Thanks Joseph.
    I'll wait for Martin to answer before I do.

    And my guess is that he "has no clue" either since that is the natural lot for all Calvinists concerning election and God's reasons for choosing the elect.
     
    #18 JackRUS, Apr 23, 2006
  19. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Jack,

    Do you need to know why God does everything he does? If so, why do you need to know?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #19 Joseph_Botwinick, Apr 23, 2006
  20. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    Hi Jack,

    Not sure what Martin would say, but I'd say that the Bible doesn't tell us why God chooses some but not others. I'm also curious why you want Calvinists to answer questions that the Bible does not answer.
     
    #20 whatever, Apr 23, 2006
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