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The Great Protestant Fallacy

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Bro. James

Well-Known Member
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Baptism a washing? Of what? Dirt?

The scriptural example of immersion is a picture of death, burial, and resurrection. How do we get washing away sins from this picture? Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Water washes grime, using the right emulsifier.

Some one has changed the picture--may have been the Pedo-Baptists. By whose authority?

Now what?

Bro. James
 
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Bro. James

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
What's been done? Sprinkling of infants? Public baths?

A lot of folk think their sins were sprinkled away with holy water. Only innocent blood pays the sin debt--Jesus took care of that, because we could not. All the blessed water in the world will not change that fact.

Selah,

Bro. James
 
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Matt Black

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Baptismal regeneration, including infant baptism; see eg: the writings of Justin Martyr (earlier referenced) and Tertullian for some early info on it.
 
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Bro. James

Well-Known Member
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That is the issue, exactly, Matthew, baptismal regeneration; i.e. salvation by works or salvation by grace. It cannot be both. There is no middle ground. This was the first false doctrine which led to the falling away. The Bride of Christ has not defiled herself with such things.

Selah,

Bro. James
 
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charles_creech78

New Member
Bible-boy said:
In other words you are espousing your belief that Church tradition is the final authority over the Scripture. No thanks...

I perfer to let the Scriptures speak for themselves and hold the traditions of men under the final authority of God's Word.
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Amen, Amen, Amen
 
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Eliyahu

Active Member
Site Supporter
Baptismal Regeneration was already dealt with many times.

It is a heresy producing millions of Unbelievers into the church, upon which RCC and many other Catholics are based on.

Baptismal Regeneration means that the Unbeliever is born again by the Water Baptism.

It confesses that they are baptizing the Unbelievers so that they may become the Believers in their version just by water baptism.

so, the Baptismal Regeneraion is often connected with Infant Baptism, Unbelievers Baptism.

Believers Baptism by Total Immersion is the only mode and qualification for the Baptism which can be found in the Scripture.
 
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Eric B

Active Member
Site Supporter
Matt Black said:
No, and neither does the Catholic Church - the Catechism and Lumen Gentium say something along the lines that catechumens are already joined to the [Catholic] Church to the extent that they are already saved. But in this sense baptism is retrospective - it effects (not merely ratifies) what has gone before (in much the same way as David could look forward to Christ's atonement and claim forgiveness based on it in Psalm 51). Nice try! - but not quite: if a catechumen were to refuse baptism after instruction, then that for me would cast doubt on his/her salvation, if s/he did that with full knowledge.
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Alot of us might as well. The question would be why they're refusing baptism. If a person loves Christ, they should keep His commandment. Still, what you said about already being joined to the Church (Body) is what we believe.
Interesting...from when then would you date that overformulation?
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No single "date"; gradually over the centuries, where more details were added to try to explain and clarify things (such as we see with the fathers that have already been mentioned).
 
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Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
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I think this thread went off thread already with the second post (Reformed Baptist). Chemnitz's opening statement was legitimate and very applicable, in this our day and situation.
 
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Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
David Lamb said:
Yet we read of the Jews at Berea being commended because they studied the scriptures (the Old Testament at that time, of course) to see if what Paul and Silas preached was actually true. Those Bereans weren't Christians already, so they would not have been members of any church. No, they studied the scriptures. Think also of what John wrote in John 20.30-31:

30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
​
Not "these are written, that ye may call upon the church to interpret them to you."

Your suggestion sounds more than faintly Roman Catholic to me.
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GE

You haven't heard Chemnitz. Your example here confirms just what he said, but you still challenge him on it? The great Reformed theologian, Karl Barth, just listen what he says! (You don't have to read the big works, only his Dogmatik im Grundriss, Dogmatics in Outline.) It is as Protestant as can be statement Chemnitz made, if he is a catholic or not.
 
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Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
Yes, indeed it was a 'great (American) Protestant fallacy', this overheated individuality and 'free'-thinking. It stopped to be thinking, because it went rampant unchalleged and undisciplined by the Church - the Protestant Church!
I have been BEGGING this Chruch (which I despite anything shall always believe is Christ's Own Church) to take me to task for the views I have developed so contrary its accepted and directly from Roman Catholicism inherited Dogma.
Had the Church but stuck to the rule of Scriptures, but the Scriptures of the Church, the status quo might have been different than it is today, and we might not have seen the thousands and thousands of sects and heresies.
 
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Agnus_Dei

New Member
Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
We might not have seen the very same and main Roman Catholic errors retain rule in most of Protestantism!
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The Orthodox Church sees Catholicism and Protestantism on the same side of the coin. Protestantism is the egg laid by Catholicism...
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BobRyan

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Matt Black said:
Baptismal regeneration, including infant baptism; see eg: the writings of Justin Martyr (earlier referenced) and Tertullian for some early info on it.
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See the Bible (Romans 6, 1Peter 3) for a complete debunking of infant baptism and baptismal regeneration.

See Church history as EVEN the RCC has admitted to it - to see that infant baptism WAS NOT being taught in the first century

in Christ,

Bob
 
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