The HCSB Has No Soul

[TCGreek]

1. I've been going through the Psalter with the HCSB and noticed that it doesn't translate nephesh as soul but something else:

Ps 42:1:
HCSB: As a deer longs for streams of water,
so I long for You, God

NASB: As the deer pants for the water brooks,
So my soul pants for You, O God.

Ps 23:3
HCSB: He renews my life;
He leads me along the right paths
for His name's sake

NASB:He restores my soul;
He guides me in the paths of righteousness
For His name's sake.

Ps 63:1
HCSB:God, You are my God; I eagerly seek You.
I thirst for You;
my body faints for You
in a land that is dry, desolate, and without water

NASB: O God, You are my God; I shall seek You earnestly;
My soul thirsts for You, my flesh yearns for You,
In a dry and weary land where there is no water.

2. I see no good reason to do away with "soul." I need a Bible with "soul," for I'm "soulful.":thumbs:

 

[Dale-c]

CLue me in, what is the HCSB? I don't recall seeing that before.

 

[Ed Edwards]

HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/

 

[kiwimac]

That's because 'Nephesh' does not just mean 'soul' in the English sense but can (and does) also mean, 'me', 'my life' etc.

nephesh neh'-fesh ; properly, a breathing creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental):--any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

 

[tinytim]

TC's new theme song...

Comin to ya on a dusty road
Good lovin I got a truck load
And when you get it you got something
So dont worry cause Im coming

Im a soul man
Im a soul man
Im a soul man
Im a soul man

 

[Rippon]

That's because 'Nephesh' does not just mean 'soul' in the English sense but can (and does) also mean, 'me', 'my life' etc.

I think I will go along with our newcomer here . Kiwimac has it right .

BTW , for Ps. 42:1 the NLTse and NET Bible do not have 'soul' in the text -- the TNIV does . For Ps. 23:3 the NLTse and NET do not have soul in the text , but the TNIV does . For Ps. 63:1 the NLTse and NET Bible have the word 'soul' , but the TNIV does not . The NET note says Or: "I Thirst" .

I think many more examples can be found in both the Old and New Testaments where the English word 'soul' is not necessary to convey the meaning of the original .

 

[Rippon]

I think I will go along with our newcomer here . Kiwimac has it right .

Oops , Kiwimac is not a newcomer . August of 2001 does not a newcomer make .

 

[Rippon]

I thought I would do a small survey . In all of the following references the NET Bible retained the word 'soul' .
T = TNIV Yes = It has the word .
N =NLTse No = It dos not .
H = HCSB

Job 21:25 , Job 30:16 , Ps. 57:8 , Pro. 13:19
T - Yes ,No ,Yes ,Yes
N - No , No ,No , No
H - Yes ,No ,Yes ,No

Pro. 16:24 , Matt. 10:28 , Matt. 22:37, Mk. 14:34

T - Yes ,Yes ,Yes ,Yes
N - Yes ,Yes ,Yes ,Yes
H - No ,Yes ,Yes , Yes


Luke 1:46 , Heb. 4:12 , James 5:20 , 1 Peter 2:11

T - Yes ,Yes ,No ,Yes
N - Yes ,Yes ,No ,Yes
H - Yes ,Yes ,No ,No

1 Pet. 2:8 , 3 John 1:2 ,

T - Yes ,Yes
N - Yes ,No
H - No ,Yes

So , how many retained 'soul' ?

T - 12
N - 8
H - 8 Are we to conclude that the TNIV is the most conservative from this ? It scored 12 out of 14 .

Some remarks : In Ps. 57:8 the NLTse had 'heart' . In Pr. 16:24 the HCSB's footnote said the literal was 'throat' . In James 5:20 the word 'life' was used in the HCSB . In 3 John 1:2 the word 'spirit' was used in the NLTse .

 

[TCGreek]

TC's new theme song...

Comin to ya on a dusty road
Good lovin I got a truck load
And when you get it you got something
So dont worry cause Im coming

Im a soul man
Im a soul man
Im a soul man
Im a soul man

Good son, Tim. :thumbs:

I like to read that SOUL--it sinks deep down.

And since one of the nuances of nephesh is soul, I'll go with soul, Rippon on this one.

 

[D28guy]

TinyTim,

"Comin to ya on a dusty road
Good lovin I got a truck load
And when you get it you got something
So dont worry cause Im coming

Im a soul man
Im a soul man
Im a soul man
Im a soul man"

Oh, my. You better hope some musical pharisee doesnt show up and give you a good "tongue lashing" for corrupting us all with that verse #2 up there.

Theres one guy in particular I'm thinking of. Cant remember his username. You know whom I'm talking about, I'm sure.

Mike :thumbs:

 

[Rippon]

Sorry TCG . Even the NASBU did not use the word 'soul' for one reference . In Psalm 57:8 it uses 'my glory' instead of 'my soul'. So it scores just one point more than the TNIV here -- 13 out of 14 points .

 

[Rippon]

Another Small Survey

I looked up ten more references where the NET Bible used 'soul' in its text . The TNIV , NLTse , HCSB and the NASU all had the word 'soul' in Matthew 26:38 , Luke 2:35 and John 12:27 .

Again T= TNIV , N = NLTse , H = HCSB , and NA = NASU .

Gen. 49:6 , 1 Sam. 1:15 , Job 3:20 , Ps. 62:5
T - No ------Yes-----------Yes---------- Yes
N - No ------No------------No ----------No
H - No ------No------------No-----------Yes
NA - Yes ---Yes------------Yes----------Yes

Pro. 23:16 , Jer. 4:19 , Acts 2:27
T -No ------No----------No
N -No------No----------Yes
H -No------Yes---------Yes
NA -No-----Yes---------Yes

So , in this little treatment the NASU got 9 out of 10 , TNIV got 6 as did the HCSB . The NLTse got 4 . All 4 versions did not use 'soul' in Proverbs 23:16 .

 

[TCGreek]

Sorry TCG . Even the NASBU did not use the word 'soul' for one reference . In Psalm 57:8 it uses 'my glory' instead of 'my soul'. So it scores just one point more than the TNIV here -- 13 out of 14 points .

Good stuff, Rippon.

At Ps 57:8 the Heb is kabod not nephesh, so the NASB is on target with "my glory."

Do you have the correct reference?

 

[Deacon]

On a road of dust, I cometh
Good charity fills my wagon
And when you get charity you have something
Feareth not, I come

I'm a soul'd man

KJ version

Comin to ya on a dusty road
Good lovin I got a truck load
And when you get it you got something
So dont worry cause Im coming

Im a man
Im a man
Im a man
Im a man

HCS version

There was a thread a while back about this: "He restoreth my soul" [LINK]

I've come to believe that "soul" should not be translated and the the more recent versions are correct here.

My own conclusion was that this may have been a contributing factor to the ancient debate between the Pharisees and the Sadducees on whether there was an afterlife.

Rob

 

[Deacon]

Good stuff, Rippon.

At Ps 57:8 the Heb is kabod not nephesh, so the NASB is on target with "my glory."

Do you have the correct reference?

There is a bit of a textual variant in the Hebrew text of Psalm 57:8,
some manuscripts read [כְבוֹדִי ] = “kevodi” = “my glory” while others read, [כְּבֵדִי ] “kevedi” = “my liver”, both would imply the sense of “my full being”.

Rob

 

[EdSutton]

There is a bit of a textual variant in the Hebrew text of Psalm 57:8,
some manuscripts read [כְבוֹדִי ] = “kevodi” = “my glory” while others read, [כְּבֵדִי ] “kevedi” = “my liver”, both would imply the sense of “my full being”.

Rob

Well, I don't read any Hebrew, so have to take the word of others more learned than I, on this. I checked the English versions on Bible Gateway, to find various ways of rendering of Ps. 57:8, by different versions, including, "glory", "soul", "heart", "life", and "spirit".

I dunno' about anyone else, but for me, somehow, "Wake up, my liver!" , or "My liver pants for You", just doesn't seem to have quite the same ring to it, as some better known phrases. :smilewinkgrin: :laugh:

Ed

 

[franklinmonroe]

I thought I would do a small survey . In all of the following references the NET Bible retained the word 'soul'...
Are we to conclude that the TNIV is the most conservative from this ? It scored 12 out of 14 .

Hey Rip, thanks for doing all that 'leg work'. It seems that its the NET that is the most conservative!

 

[TCGreek]

There is a bit of a textual variant in the Hebrew text of Psalm 57:8,
some manuscripts read [כְבוֹדִי ] = “kevodi” = “my glory” while others read, [כְּבֵדִי ] “kevedi” = “my liver”, both would imply the sense of “my full being”.

Rob

Here's what the NET footnote came up with, after putting "my soul" in the text:

"Heb “glory,” but that makes little sense in the context. Some view כָּבוֹד (kavod, “glory”) here as a metonymy for man’s inner being (see BDB 459 s.v. II כָּבוֹד 5), but it is preferable to emend the form to כְּבֵדִי (kÿvediy, “my liver”). Like the heart, the liver is viewed as the seat of one’s emotions. See also Pss 16:9; 30:12; 108:1, as well as H. W. Wolff, Anthropology of the Old Testament, 64, and M. Dahood, Psalms (AB), 1:90. For an Ugaritic example of the heart/liver as the source of joy, see G. R. Driver, Canaanite Myths and Legends, 47-48: “her [Anat’s] liver swelled with laughter, her heart was filled with joy, the liver of Anat with triumph.”

 

[Deacon]

Love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
Deuteronomy 6:5 HCSB


"Soul" in the NET (39X in the OT)

Genesis 49:6

Deuteronomy 4:29; 26:16

1 Samuel 1:15; 2:35

2 Kings 23:25

Job 3:20; 7:11; 10:1; 21:25; 30:16; 30:25; 33:20

Psalm 42:5; 42:11; 43:5; 57:8; 62:5; 63:1; 63:5; 63:8; 103:1; 103:2; 103:22; 104:1; 104:35; 116:7; 143:6; 146:1;

Proverbs 11:30; 13:19; 16:24; 23:16; 24:14;

Jeremiah 4:19; 6:16; 20:9; 29:13; 31:25



35X in the HCSB OT

Deuteronomy 4:29; 6:5; 10:12; 11:13; 11:18; 13:3; 26:16; 30:2; 30:6; 30:10

Joshua 22:5; 23:14

Judges 5:21

2 Chronicles 34:31

Job 7:11; 10:1; 21:25; 30:25; 33:18; 33:20; 33:28

Psalm 19:7; 57:8; 62:5; 103:1; 103:2; 103:22; 104:1; 104:35; 116:7; 146:1

Ecclesiastes 7:28

Isaiah 38:15

Jeremiah 4:19

Lamentations 3:17

...and 44X in the NLT


A good study question would be, "Why is there “soul” in these verses and not in the others?"

Rob

 

[TCGreek]

Love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
Deuteronomy 6:5 HCSB


"Soul" in the NET (39X in the OT)

Genesis 49:6

Deuteronomy 4:29; 26:16

1 Samuel 1:15; 2:35

2 Kings 23:25

Job 3:20; 7:11; 10:1; 21:25; 30:16; 30:25; 33:20

Psalm 42:5; 42:11; 43:5; 57:8; 62:5; 63:1; 63:5; 63:8; 103:1; 103:2; 103:22; 104:1; 104:35; 116:7; 143:6; 146:1;

Proverbs 11:30; 13:19; 16:24; 23:16; 24:14;

Jeremiah 4:19; 6:16; 20:9; 29:13; 31:25



35X in the HCSB OT

Deuteronomy 4:29; 6:5; 10:12; 11:13; 11:18; 13:3; 26:16; 30:2; 30:6; 30:10

Joshua 22:5; 23:14

Judges 5:21

2 Chronicles 34:31

Job 7:11; 10:1; 21:25; 30:25; 33:18; 33:20; 33:28

Psalm 19:7; 57:8; 62:5; 103:1; 103:2; 103:22; 104:1; 104:35; 116:7; 146:1

Ecclesiastes 7:28

Isaiah 38:15

Jeremiah 4:19

Lamentations 3:17

...and 44X in the NLT


A good study question would be, "Why is there “soul” in these verses and not in the others?"

Rob

So HCSB knows when to use "soul," so why not keep "soul" in the Psalter?