The Heart of Sin

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

The question has been asked where did sin originate from. Can we blame it all on Satan or Adam? We need to know what it consists of and how is it spread and how did we come to emulate it in our own lives.

Some see sin as a contagion, as a disease that is spread from father to son or daughter. Is this Scriptural and according to truth? Be careful not to establish your answers on the philosophical notions of theologians, passed down in the form of dogmatism, but rather seek for Scriptural definitions or verses that would enlighten the reader as to it's makeup to back up your arguments.

If you take the position that sin is a contagion like a disease, can you find Scriptural support for how it is passed on and to what it effects? Is it passed on via the spirit of man or is via the flesh of man and or both? Again, try your best to establish your ideas based upon the Word of God.

 

[David Michael Harris]

Man is no longer perfect, Adam was and corrupted himself, we are all from Adam, ie, in him, all fall short of the glory of God. Sin existed before Adam fell or so it seems. Thanks be to God though, now we can be 'in Christ'... all Christians lives are hidden with Christ in God.

Mystery upon mystery, very spiritual stuff.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DMH: Man is no longer perfect, Adam was and corrupted himself, we are all from Adam, ie, in him, all fall short of the glory of God.

HP: That sure enough sounds spiritual, but is it Biblical?

 

[Revmitchell]

HP: That sure enough sounds spiritual, but is it Biblical?

Ro 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

RevM: Ro 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

HP: That indeed is biblical, and death is indeed is said to be the last enemy, but is death sin?

 

[Revmitchell]

RevM: Ro 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

HP: That indeed is biblical, and death is indeed is said to be the last enemy, but is death sin?

I dont have a clue how you arrived at that question.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

RevM: I dont have a clue how you arrived at that question.

HP: It is getting very late. Sometimes things come clearer after a good nights rest. How about we continue this tomorrow afternoon?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

HP: Rev Mitchell, and possibly others may not understand why I reacted to his response in the way I did. The reason why is because Rev. Mitchell posted a verse that does not indicate in the least that ‘sin’ is passed on to us via Adam as DMH alluded to, but rather states clearly that it is ‘death’ not ‘sin’, that has come upon all men due to Adam’s sin. Why?, because “all have sinned. ”

I trust it is evident why I would ask Rev. Mitchell if “death is sin.” He is using a verse that sys nothing about the transmission of sin, but rather indicates death is that which is passed on, and the reason why death is passed on is because ‘all have sinned’ not because Adam sinned. Surely Adam sinning greatly increased the influence to sin, and by his example influences his posterity to sin, but no man can pass his personal sin and resulting guilt on to anyone else directly, for sin is the judgment of God upon an individuals actions, and every man is responsible to God for his own actions, not that of another.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

 

[BobRyan]

RevM: Ro 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

HP: That indeed is biblical, and death is indeed is said to be the last enemy, but is death sin?

Death is brought about by sin - sin is the source of death according to Romans 5 and Genesis 2.

Where there is no sin - no death.

Our problem is that we inherit the sinful nature from our parents. The sin problem is 3 part. Sins committed, sins we are committing, sinFUL nature.

The gospel sovles the first two immediately. It solves the 3rd part at the 2nd coming.

But that does not address one of the questions in the OP - where did sin come from to start with.

Adam and the angels were sinless - but were tempted by an outside evil being - Satan.

Satan - who starts as Lucifer was not tempted by anyone. He merely "chose" to indulge pride.

Question - what is the source of pride?

It had to be given by God - sin is merely a perversion of what God has created.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[David Michael Harris]

HP: That sure enough sounds spiritual, but is it Biblical?

Yes it is, it's one of the very foundations of Christianity. All fall short of the Glory of God because of Adams transgression. We are all from his loins.

 

[Brother Bob]

You say Adam was perfect but I wonder? He was without sin but he was created "subject to vanity" in other words had a choice to continue on in good or choose vanity of which he did. "Perfect" when we are resurrected we will be perfect and that means we will no longer be subject to vanity, there will be no choice of vanity in man no more and therefore he will be "perfect".
If Adam had of been "perfect" he would not of had this weakness of giving in to sin. I think he was perfect in the sense that he had no sin but not perfect as a creature for he had this weakness of sin looking good to him. Hope this make sense.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Brother Bob: If Adam had of been "perfect" he would not of had this weakness of giving in to sin. I think he was perfect in the sense that he had no sin but not perfect as a creature for he had this weakness of sin looking good to him. Hope this make sense.

HP: I believe I understand you, but I see what you deem as a weakness as an absolute necessary element of our moral nature instilled within us by God. I would see us as being created as perfect moral beings, ‘good’ as God stated, in light this possibility of succumbing to temptation. Without this possibility, all morality would be excluded.

 

[Brother Bob]

HP: I believe I understand you, but I see what you deem as a weakness as an absolute necessary element of our moral nature instilled within us by God. I would see us as being created as perfect moral beings, ‘good’ as God stated, in light this possibility of succumbing to temptation. Without this possibility, all morality would be excluded.

BB; Well, I called it a weakness but really its that choice that God gave man. All these things were knew to Adam and I would imagine he went with what "felt good", which led him to be imperfect. He was perfect but yet he wasn't because he could choose to become imperfect of which he did. If that choice had not of been there man never would of fell. He couldn't.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Can one sin without freedom to do something other than what he does under the very same set of circumstances?

 

[Brother Bob]

Can one sin without freedom to do something other than what he does under the very same set of circumstances?

If God was the author of sin he could but God is not the author of sin, and man does have a choice. How can man sin except it be against God, and if God created someone to do something how could it be against Him? Ha, thats a good one HP.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

BB: If God was the author of sin he could but God is not the author of sin, and man does have a choice. How can man sin except it be against God, and if God created someone to do something how could it be against Him?

HP: Now, IF predestination means that God is 'the cause,' could God predestine the good without predestining the evil, again with predestination as being synonymous with being the cause?

I am asking this to see if in fact we must be thinking about predestination in a wrong manner.

 

[Brother Bob]

HP: Now, IF predestination means that God is 'the cause,' could God predestine the good without predestining the evil, again with predestination as being synonymous with being the cause?

Well, I have always preached God could of made man where he couldn't sin but only do good. Is that what you are asking. God could and can do anything He so desires.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

BB: Well, I have always preached God could of made man where he couldn't sin but only do good. Is that what you are asking. God could and can do anything He so desires.

HP: Sure He could have, He made rocks didn’t He? Not a bad rock in the bunch.

Seriously, the question is not what He could have done, but rather the question must be asked in light of punishments and rewards. Could God be just by punishing man for a fate not of his own making and in fact predestined by God?

Here again, the problem I am bringing up only is a problem when we understand predestination with God as predetermining the outcome as the Cause of it. If we simply look at predestination, as God foreknowing matters of perfect choice and planning accordingly without determining the outcome of those free choices of man, no such problem exists.

 

[Brother Bob]

I think it would be a partial God to do something like that. That is why I believe man is responsible for his own sins, not God. Now God foreknows all things and knew what man would do or how else could Christ stood as a slain Lamb before the foundation of the world. But foreknowing does not mean God causes the effect. I believe in my signature, Influence and decision. God strives with all men but man makes the decision to do good or evil. Both the Spirit of God strives with man to do good and the evil spirit strives with man to do evil and man must choose which. I call it the crossroads, you can either go right and be on the right hand of God or go left and be among the goats. I hope I made it clear HP.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

BB: Both the Spirit of God strives with man to do good and the evil spirit strives with man to do evil and man must choose which. I call it the crossroads, you can either go right and be on the right hand of God or go left and be among the goats. I hope I made it clear HP.

HP: Amen Brother. If we as a Church could just keep our requirements and statements to simple and straightforward ones like this, and leave out the dogmas that confuse such simple statements of truth, we might possibly be off to the start of another revival of religion. The wafaring man, though a fool, could understand your post with clarity. No double talk there. Lead on Brother Bob!