1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured The Holy Bible: a Purified Translation

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by rlvaughn, May 17, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 1 of 6
  1. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Are any of you familiar with:

    The Holy Bible: a Purified Translation. The New Testament. Glenside, PA: The Lorine L. Reynolds Foundation, 2000

    I received this New Testament free in the mail several years ago – wondered what it was, kind of glanced at it and then stuck it away on a shelf. Out of curiosity I have recently pulled it out and started looking at it. It is particularly the work of Stephen Mills Reynolds and Charles Butler, and possibly others. (Reynolds served in some capacity on the New International Version translation, but I’m not sure of his role.) This “Purified” translation, which might be looked at as more of an interpretation and commentary, is peculiarly focused on promoting teetotalism. The reviewer at International Society of Bible Collectors writes, “Dr. Reynolds goes to extraordinary lengths to support his convictions regarding the use of alcohol.” Here’s an excerpt from John 2.

    John 2:3 And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.”19
    John 2:9 When the master of the feast tasted the water that had become grape juice,…25
    John 2:10 And he said to him, “Every man at the beginning sets out the good beverage,…26

    19. Oinos, the Greek word for wine, is neutral as to alcoholic content. Here the context indicates it was alcoholic…
    25. Oinos (Gr.) here is grape juice. Jesus surely obeyed Proverbs 23:31 and did not create alcoholic wine.
    26. The master of the feast uses oinos in its neutral sense, speaking of the good quality of the beverage. Whether it was alcoholic or nonalcoholic is not in view.

    In the three verses above, oinos is translated wine, grape juice and beverage, according to the ideas of Reynolds concerning alcohol consumption. In footnote 19 Reynolds also explains the wedding situation with Mary the mother of Jesus serving as the caterer of the wedding – that after Joseph died Mary may have started a catering business to support her family, and that she may have felt obligated to furnish alcoholic wine as part of her obligation to her customers. (A Purified Translation, The New Testament; pages 197-199)

    This translation also has an interesting peculiarity of abandoning “the archaic ‘thou’, etc.” while distinguishing between second person singular and plural with a mark. “A (`) in this translation indicates the second person singular. The plural remains unmarked.” (p.3, footnote 9)
     
    #1 rlvaughn, May 17, 2017
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Except there is a Greek word for "grape juice" (γλευκους = gleucous) that is not found in this passage. (See Acts 2:13.)
     
    #2 TCassidy, May 17, 2017
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Sp Oaul was commending timothy to drink some grape juice to settle his stomach?
     
    #3 Yeshua1, May 17, 2017
  4. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Re that verse the Purified Translation gives it as “grape juice,” with the footnote that it could also be translated “new wine” (grape juice in early stages of fermentation), but his footnote emphasizes the mocking nature of the comment.

    Other features of this Bible include bold text when quoting from the Old Testament, and italics for added words. One thing you can say about Reynolds is that he has profuse footnotes explaining or defending why things are translated the way they are, with others that are just commentary. Looks like some of this could be quite interesting (“It is by choice that persons become homosexual. These verses refute the claim that they are made that way.” Romans 1:27, p. 319) or doggedly odd (he makes comments on alcohol consumption with passages not remotely related to the topic.).

    In case it isn't clear: I am not recommending the Bible, but rather found it a curiosity. The Holy Bible: a Purified Translation is clearly a niche Bible that might satisfy readers who hold the “two-wine theory” and want it inserted in their Bibles.
     
    #4 rlvaughn, May 17, 2017
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  5. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    11,184
    Likes Received:
    2,489
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well when I was in the Marines way back when, my buddies and I had Cheap Red Mountain Wine... That is the first and last time I drank that, you get the picture... What is meant by new wine because of the hour of the day?... Also take a little wine for thy infirmities sake... Wine must have medicinal properties?... Then again as much as I have drunk of the stuff I never got drunk on grape juice... I replying to Brother Roberts thought on homosexuals... It states in scripture that some made themselves Eunuch's for the Kingdom Of Heaven sake... Seems to me that still applies today... Just my thoughts... Brother Glen:)
     
    #5 tyndale1946, May 17, 2017
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The sad trend is to rewrite the Bible to make it say what the translator thinks it ought to say. Examples can be found from the NWT to the NIV. Stick with the NASB95, the NKJV, the WEB and the LEB. View the other translations as a mix of scripture and commentary, such as the NET, NIV and NLT.
     
    #6 Van, May 20, 2017
  7. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Van the flip-flopper. The NET and HCSB used to be on your turntable as "the best translations" out there. So were you wrong then? Actually, early on in your time on the BB you used to endorse the NIV as one of the excellent translations. My you are fickle Van.
     
    #7 Rippon, May 20, 2017
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Again, all the advocates of fake theology have is to misrepresent, bash, disparage, and obfuscate.

    No quote (with reference to the actual post) will be forthcoming. The NIV certainly has its strong points, but rewriting scripture to fit an agenda is not one of them. But it is easier to read than other more accurate translations.
     
    #8 Van, May 20, 2017
  9. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You and Y1 are like two peas in a pod.
    So awkward English = more accuracy in your view. Got it.
     
    #9 Rippon, May 20, 2017
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, when the awkwardness is caused by trying to be literal on the Greek translation to English, such as when the Nas tries to get the verb tense meaning into the English!
     
    #10 Yeshua1, May 20, 2017
  11. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Your "English" is beyond awkward. Your accuracy is zero.
     
    #11 Rippon, May 20, 2017
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Paul was also hard to understand!
     
    #12 Yeshua1, May 20, 2017
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You are not Paul.
     
    #13 TCassidy, May 20, 2017
    • Funny Funny x 1
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Folks, notice how the thread has been derailed by posting insults instead of insights. The fake theology advocates have nothing to say concerning the topic, the problem with translation according to what the translator wants scripture to say. And to avoid discussion of the fake theology favorite (ear tickling) translations, they bring up spelling, grammar and the kitchen sink. Oh and do not forget the deliberate misrepresentation, equating accuracy with awkwardness. Obfuscation on display.

    The NIV omits words and phrases, adds words and phrases and changes the meanings of words and phrases [Edited: Attack on bible version].
     
    #14 Van, May 20, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2017
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Calling sincerely held spiritual beliefs "fake theology" is the greatest insult of all.

    I suggest you stop doing it. Now.
     
    #15 TCassidy, May 20, 2017
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What is your standard for the omission of words and phrases? Another English translation or the Greek text the NIV was translated from? If the latter, can you give an example of where the NIV omits words or phrases found in the Greek text it was translated from?

    Again, what is your standard for the addition of words and phrases? Another English translation or the Greek text the NIV was translated from? If the latter, can you give an example of where the NIV adds words or phrases not found in the Greek text it was translated from?

    And yet again, what is your standard for the change of meaning of words and phrases? Another English translation or the Greek text the NIV was translated from? If the latter, can you give an example of where the NIV changes the meaning of words or phrases found in the Greek text it was translated from?

    Thanks.
     
    #16 TCassidy, May 20, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    2 Thessalonians 2:13 clearly teaches our election for salvation is through faith in the truth. Therefore Unconditional Election for salvation is fake theology. Rather than threaten me with censorship, why not teach the truth.

    The MSM puts out fake news, stuff with no basis in fact, non-stop. I am constantly attacked, disparaged and now given an implied threat, all from the same group of people who cannot defend their beliefs. Does the bible teach we should accept the teachings that do not conform to scripture.
     
    #17 Van, May 20, 2017
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Insulting a fellow BB member is a rule violation.
     
    #18 TCassidy, May 20, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How come I can be insulted in post after post with no notice of a "rule violation." Just today Icon rated several of my posts as "funny." I am expressing my theology, sincerely held.

    Just a few posts up we find, "Your "English" is beyond awkward. Your accuracy is zero." Yet no action was taken to silence those that insult others.

    I try to address positions and views, not posters, as you, sir, are doing. The Bereans who checked what people say against scripture would not be seen as noble, but as "rule violators."

    Van the flip-flopper
    My you are fickle Van.

    On and on but you TC ignore insults directed at me non stop, but when I refer to bogus doctrine as "fake theology" why that is a high crime.

    Just look at the posts that address RCC doctrine, or JW doctrine, or Arminian doctrine. Insults galore with no action. But if I point out Calvinism is unbiblical, bogus, and fake, why I am a rule violator. These are not made up charges, I carefully and accurately and specifically document why Unconditional Election if bogus, why Limited Atonement is bogus, why Total Spiritual Inability is bogus and why irresistible grace is bogus. The sum and substance of the response is always the same, "taint so, and Van you are rotten for saying so."
     
    #19 Van, May 21, 2017
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Mistranslation in the NIV
    1) Isaiah 12:3 the omission of the conjunction should read, "therefore"
    2) Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant should read, "moved with anger."
    3) John 1:16 does not seem any more flawed than many other translations, what the text actually says is "And out of His abundance we all also obtained grace against grace."
    4) John 21:5 friends should read, "children."
    5) Acts 13:50 "leaders" should be italicized to indicate an addition to the text.
    6) Romans 3:25 sacrifice of atonement should read, "propitiatory shelter."
    7) 1 Corinthians 16:13 "be courageous" should read, "act like men."
    8) Ephesians 2:3 deserving of wrath should read, "children of wrath."
    9) Colossians 1:28 the omission of "every man" (or every person) reduces the force of the teaching that the gospel is understandable to every person.
    10) 2 Thess. 2:13 to be saved should read, "for salvation."
    11) 2 Thess. 3:6 who is idle should read, "who leads an undisciplined life"
    12) 1 Timothy 3:16 appeared in the flesh should read, "revealed in the flesh."
    13) Titus 3:4 love should read, "love for mankind."
    14) Hebrews 10:14 sacrifice should read, "offering."
    15) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read, "yet rich in faith."
    16) 1 Peter 4:6 those who are now dead should read, "those who are dead."
    17) 1 John 2:2 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation."
    18) 1 John 4:10 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation."
    19) Rev. 13:8 from the creation should read, "from the foundation."
    20) Rev. 22:21 be with God's people should read, "be with all."
    21) 1 Samuel 15:19 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord."
    22) 1 Samuel 15:20 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord."
    23) 1 Samuel 15:22 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord."

    Examples 1, 9, 13, 21, 22, and 23 document omission of words or parts of words.
    Examples 5, 15, and 16 document addition of words.
    Examples 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 17, 18, 19 and 20 document replacement of the inspired word with a different word or different words.

    #253 Van, Nov 19, 2015
     
    #20 Van, May 21, 2017
Page 1 of 6
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...