Originally posted by Benjamin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> For Benjamin also. I used to “ponder” this question, but no more. I believe there has to be a difference, for the Old is no more. All things are New. In the Old how could the saints enter into the Body of Christ? How could they be justified – made righteous, and be as Christ; How could they be sealed?
There was a difference as the OT captives were not set free, or delivered. In light of me throwing in the word “reborn” Duh, They couldn’t be in the Body of Christ. I would still ask if they were not somehow sealed in the promise of God’s Word through faith and believing in the same Good News and had HOPE like us. If the Spirit was in them, then wouldn’t they be in the Spirit, although not in the Body of Christ who was to deliver them? Who put them on the other side of the “great gulf” and then didn’t they still know He was still with them and they were still saved by faith?
The “good news” (gospel) changed to fit God’s program in order to defeat Satan, and ensure Christ Jesus’ kingdom. God did not pour out His Spirit on all that are His until this dispensation. God’s Spirit filled some with knowledge, wisdom, workmanship, etc. but not of the sealing of salvation. The Holy Spirit came upon some at certain times (Samson), and could be completely taken away(King Saul). The Spirit stayed on David while King. Those of Old did not have the assurance as we today. We know we are saved immediately for we died with Him on the Cross where all of our sins are taken care of. This was an impossibility for those in other ages. I can’t find where they were indwelled with the Holy Spirit, as we today are.
(Psa 71:9) Cast me not off in the time of old age; forsake me not when my strength faileth.
We need never pray this prayer, or those others you list along this line, for we are in the faith of Jesus Christ, who we come through to the Father.
(Psa 71:10) For mine enemies speak against me; and they that lay wait for my soul take counsel together,
(Psa 71:11) Saying, God hath forsaken him: persecute and take him; for there is none to deliver him.
(Psa 71:12) O God, be not far from me: O my God, make haste for my help.
(Psa 71:13) Let them be confounded and consumed that are adversaries to my soul; let them be covered with reproach and dishonor that seek my hurt.
(Psa 71:14) But I will hope continually, and will yet praise thee more and more.
(Psa 71:15) My mouth shall show forth thy righteousness and thy salvation all the day; for I know not the numbers thereof.
We have by the continued revelation of the Good News been told that by believing in God’s Son (having the Deliverer’s job already finished) or in other words having faith in Him we are also saved and have HOPE.
Agree in the progression of understanding, as God revealed His purpose in His Word.
(Rom 8:24) For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
(Rom 8:25) But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
(Rom 8:26) Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
(Rom 8:27) And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
(Rom 8:28) And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
We are told that all things work together for them that love God. Trinity-God works together right? The Spirit knows our heart and makes intercession for us.
This would seem to point that the major difference is we are already delivered, set free.
Seems you are proving my point
quote:
Those of Old, didn’t know His name by whom they had to come, so they came By faith, and they could not come through His blood that had not been shed.
Don’t we come by faith also, whether Jesus’ blood has us already being delivered, or a promise of a way to be delivered, that God the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, is faithful and still by our faith in Him we are saved. I hope you’re not telling me we have to know in His name, such as the Cosmic Conscious Oneness people who don’t seem to recognize there is a Trinity and God comes to us in different forms and purposes. WE know that our promise of deliverance came by the Father’s promise to the Son and with the help of the Holy Spirit. THEY knew they had the Father’s promise of deliverance, but not the means, (for if they had known, they wouldn’t have crucified Him) and with the help of the Holy Spirit.
It is because of the faith of Jesus in His Father to raise Him from the dead, for our faith means nothing, unless we believe we can be saved coming through the faith of Jesus Christ. Scripture says there is no other name under heaven that will save us.
God is in control, and allows things to happen for His purpose, and that purpose was to defeat Satan, and death, which was done. God allowed Satan to play out his cards, and Satan lost, not knowing what God had hidden from the beginning of the world. Christ’s inheritance grows larger every day, until(I believe)
God has replaced those fallen angels with the faithful that are sealed in Christ, part of His inheritance. Can’t be sure of that but it must be something close to it, for John says we will be like Him, but don’t know yet exactly what we will be.
Isn’t the major difference just that the Good News has been fully revealed in how we are to be delivered and we are set free already; and as for Paul being instructed how to teach us that in God’s Wisdom in order to be a stumbling block to the Jews who didn’t see how it was coming, and to appease the Gentiles who wanted to see the wisdom in the whole thing and this is why Paul was saying, “were you baptized in the name of Paul” clarifying and pointing to the truth that he was not involved in the Trinity and there was just One Gospel and deliverer of “all” and by “All” and now it has been fully revealed to Paul how it should be taught to “all”? 1Cor 2:7
If I get your drift, I believe you have said what we perhaps both believe, that the “good news” gospel of Paul revealed what God had Hidden until Damascus Road and afterwards.
Sidetracking here, but I have wanted to ask you straight out, Is it Paul’s gospel or God’s Gospel? Because it kind of sounds like you’re putting a fourth person in the Gospel when you call it Paul’s Gospel.
Oh yes surely it is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but God works through man to accomplish His purpose. He used Abraham to bring Jesus Christ into the world. The Law/s were given to Moses and they became Moses’ Law, and Jesus Christ lived under the laws of Moses and fulfilled prophecies and the Law of Moses. Jesus Christ preached the gospel of John the Baptist, appointed Peter the leader of the Pentecostal church to carry out the “great commission”, then revealed to Paul His(Christs gospel), which became Paul’s Gospel. You will need to argue this point ---*1 with Christ Jesus, after you convince Paul it is not His gospel, and His gospel is to the Gentile ---*2 for they will Hear It ---*3.
*1,
”In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel”,Romans 2:16.
*2,
”For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office”, Romans 11:13.
*3,
”Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it”, Acts 28:28.
Also, when the nations blessing were chopped down wasn’t there a renewed covenant offered to them also at that time if they chose to believe in the truth of the One Gospel now fully revealed. </font>[/QUOTE]I read it as after we are raptured, and then after the tribulation, there will be a New covenant made with His people as the kingdom comes.
Today only we come as individuals, for God is not today dealing with His nation, and the churches today are not Israel. We are being saved as individuals into His Church. I believe there are little clues divided, or scattered all around in the Bible, showing us one that definitely points to the nation being saved, and then another to the individual being saved, and these “good news” gospels are not the same.
In Acts 2:37-39 Paul speaks to the nation, for it is they that ask,
”Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38. Then Peter said unto them, repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
We see from His Word that this command, the “great commission” is spoken to the Jew, and to the Jew only, for the promise is to YOU of the Nation of Israel, and Your Children, and All the Children that are afar off. All evidence points to the fact that there were no Gentiles preached to or at by an Apostle, James, or any of the Pentecostal church until Peter was sent by God to the First Gentile, Cornelius. This happened after Christ spoke to Paul on Damascus Road, and we see in Acts 10:43-44 the Gentile’s that Peter preached to were saved by the Gospel of the Gentile, and not of the Jew. Christian faith, itutut Galatians 1:11-12
Like, is God unfair?
