Featured The Human Nature In Jesus Christ

His twin natures are never co mingles, or partaking of each other, but He is still One person, as he is not at times now God, nor man, but both at same time!

 

I am out of time so don't have the opportunity to give the OP the time it deserves, and will just mention one thing for the time being. It may help you to better grasp this if instead of seeing Christ as a "separate" (and I know you aren't saying that, just the easiest way to describe what I'm saying) Person from the Son of God, and in effect, God Himself. Rather, understand that God took upon Himself the flesh of man, and there was no change in His Nature when that took place, any more than you and I change natures when we put on a coat. It's a little more complex than that, lol, but that holds the basic perspective I view this as.

Look at Genesis 18, where we also see God take on human form. When we read that passage we do not think that He is or has become Someone different, but we understand that this is God, in human form, interacting with Abraham. The difference between that flesh, and the flesh created in Mary's womb is that we suppose that when God was done interacting with Abraham, that flesh did not continue, unlike the flesh of the Incarnation, in which Christ was born, lived, died, and resurrected. He is in that same flesh today, howbeit glorified.

When we understand that, I think, we can understand how He can be Human and God at the same time.


God bless.

 

I was just saying that to support what you are saying here, as we can use the Bible to support that Jesus is both God/Human, fully both, with twin natures/wills, but that he is still One person in that he is always in a single accord and agreemnet, never arguing within Himself...

 

God NEVER CHANGES. God is HOLY, natural mankind is not. Yet God has devised a WAY for Him to communicate with mankind, WITHOUT compromising His Holiness AND, WITHOUT annihilating mankind, via the brightness of His Glory. (ie Light).

Holy God communicates with natural mankind, VIA, a COVER sometimes called a VEIL.

And all of Gods VEILS are intended for man to KNOW, he (the man) is in the presence of God.

God has devised and used several COVERS; ie visions, dreams, clouds, trees, tent veils, burning bush, dove, angel, man, and in the last days, a body in the likeness as a man, God said, to call Him JESUS, the Son of God.

No. Not too deep into Gods mysteries.
Yes. Man relying on "logic" and "natural mindedness", in an attempt to understand God.

Scripture teaches; Gods Wisdom is infinite. No one can search their mind, philosophies of men, books, anything written and FIND Gods Understanding. Gods Understanding IS Unsearchable!

Scripture teaches; Knowledge. It does not teach Gods Understanding.

Knowledge is what it is ~ information revealed.

Understanding is WHAT the knowledge means.

Almost ALL of Scripture has TWO meanings;
One ~ that ANY man can read and use his MIND, to ponder, deduce, weight, figure, Logically conclude.
Two ~ that is Gods Understanding.

And in most ALL cases ~ A mans Natural understanding AND Gods understanding are Completely different. (And in many cases, men have Different natural understandings from other men).

Knowledge is revealed in Scripture for any who desires can read. They can TRUST God and believe it or not. Thus, a man with Trust, will believe the knowledge (without understanding) and a man without Trust, will doubt the knowledge being revealed.

This is exampled in Jesus' own teachings. via Parables. Jesus spoke with ONE speech, to mixed crowds. Some Trusted to believe and follow along. Others doubted and could not Trust to believe, and departed from hearing.

A natural meaning of a Parable is; a fictitious story.
Spiritual understanding of Jesus speaking in a fashion called a Parable, was precisely three fold;
1) to fulfill Scripture, that He would open His mouth in Parables.
2) that those who do not trust, would doubt and separate themselves from following along.
3) that His Parables would reveal Mysterious Truths, not before given in Knowledge.

Things that were COVERED ~ God, His mysteries, His Truths, His Knowledge ~ Have been uncovered.
ie KNOWLEDGE once hidden, NOW revealed.

The Cover ~ The Veil IS JESUS.
JESUS is God in the flesh likeness as a man ~

JESUS was revealed to mankind AS a humble Servant, without Reputation and Teacher by Example.

LATER while JESUS was on earth, Serving, Teaching (by example), it was revealed, what He "reputation" IS.

Bit by bit, we discover His Reputation, left in Heaven, coming to Him on earth ~ Wisdom, Power, Authority, etc.

It is then, it is ALSO revealed, WHO Jesus is ~ ie CHRIST ~ who is God and possesses the FULL attributes of God Himself ~ omnipresent ~ omnipresent ~ omniscience.

I do not agree in mankind's assessment and language defining JESUS as "fully man and fully God".

God is Supreme. He never changes. He does not become His own creation. Mankind is a creation.

God is Supreme. His KIND of thing IS NOT a created KIND of thing.

God is Supreme. He can APPEAR in any FASHION that pleases Him.

God Appearing "AS" a "natural man", an "angel", a "dove", or anything else, does not CHANGE God into those things.

God being CALLED such things, does not make God such things.

 

That is why I said "I know you aren't saying that," lol.

But it is something we have a tendency to do, and in truth there is good reason for that, because, as I said, Jesus Christ has a point in time when He came into being in the Incarnation, whereas the Son of God has existed eternally. At first glance that may sound like heresy, but it is what Scripture teaches.

It is explainable in human terms.

The Son of God donned a body of flesh just as you and I might don a coat. When we put that coat on we do not become a different person. That the Son of God has the ability to don humanity as we might don a coat is easily understood...He is God.

He can do that kind of thing.

When we are glorified, my friend, we will go through the same process that Jesus Christ went through, we will be glorified. But, that does not mean we will be equal to the Lord in Eternity, nor He equal to us. Because He is still God.


God bless.

 

It seems to Jesus as the second Adam was born without corruption consequently he as tempted as was Adam before sin. Adam made the decision to sin thereby corrupting himself and his progeny or son passed from Adam to all. Augustine used seminal transmission and a number of other notions to explain the origin of the OSN. He delves into
The reason for the virgin birth and these are worthy to be read. For me the second Adam gave me the ability make the right decision, to choose Christ and his righteousness and thereby be declared righteous by the love of God in Christ.
Augustine is worthy of reading but in trying to explaining the whys he become mechanical at tims afar from reality and in so doing loses the simplicity of the biblical word of God. It is not productive to try to understand God but to accept his offer and make the right decision to accept Jesus. By grace we have the help Gods on spirit and Angels beyond number

 

Before he was born, was just God the Son, since that, is the Son of God.Son of Man!

 

The trinity is quite incomprehensible and beyond Our logic. Jesus is the express image of the father and I might say only image. Putting on the flesh I think is what made Arianism so attractive, it fit our logic. The Angel said this same Jesus will return. He had a glorified redirection body and we shall have such a body. He laid aside his royal robes to come. When he came back from the grave did he assume his royal robe? So was his preoncarnation like his post reserrection body. This is fairly dangerous ground because John says flesh was a type of temple vail and he says God is spirit thus no body. There are ways interpreting imago dei where the image man as the image may not be a physical material body. I confess my obvious ignorance and any insight would a worthwhile read.

 

YES, father, son and Holy Spirit as said hear O Israel is one God.

 

Er... what is a two seed in the spirit Baptist?

 

I think the first thing i would point out in this study is that you seem to use the name "Jesus" to refer to the preincarnate son, for example you say:

Prior to the incarnation there was no Jesus Christ, their was the Son. The person of Jesus Christ is the result of The Son becoming a man.

Next you say:

Now, whilst I think I know what you mean it would be better to say, "mere human being" John 1:14 is key here.

Now, in and of themselves these points might seem that important but we are about to embark on a study in the mystery of the person of Jesus and to my mind these two points speak to the veracity of that study - great care is needed in the wording (as yourself seem to admit) and great care is needed in Biblical exegesis.

Furthermore, when you state the follow it gives me great concern:

Could we study the nature of God by leaving one person of the trinity out I wonder?

The hyperstatic union demands that we understand that whilst Jesus Christ is both God (and man and that his human and divine natures are distinct) he is, at the same time one person. And those two nature are united - hence we cannot say ever that his human will and divine will were at odds with each other (anymore then we can say the Son and the Father have ever disagreed on anything).

Now, I might have missed it but I all I see in your study is what you disagree with, what are proposing as a solution?

One area to think about is the relationship of the God-man yo sin, was he posse non peccare (as Adam) or was he (non posse peccare) as God is?

If we go for the later, as I believe we must, then the only viable explanation for that perfection is that the divine nature lifted the human nature to something greater then even the state of Adam in the garden. Now, you seem to suggest that can't be the case when you write:

In those statement you seem to assume more then most theologians say in your rejection of this position - it is not the divine nature elevated the human nature to divinity and therefore the human nature stopped being human. Ask yourself this my freind, will we still be human in the eternal state?

That is a state in which we will be non posse peccare as God is, does that mean we will be divine or does it mean that human nature can, by the design and grace of God, transcend this fallen human condition that we find ourselves in?

Anyway just a few thoughts to get your thinking

 

I don't think I would phrase it as He "was just the Son of God."

And that He is the Son of Man is more for our benefit, rather than His.

And I would agree that "Son of God" has more application to the Incarnation than His Eternal Existence.


God bless.

 

Before he became Jesus and dwelt among us, he was just in Deity, hence God the Son!

 

I wonder if you know just close to heresy your careless phrasing sometimes makes you appear?

 

Jesus was Him when he took on human flesh, so was he not Jesus God alone as to His nature before His incarnation?

 

I'm sorry - I have tried reading that - I know what all the words mean but I can't make 'head nor tail' of what it means when they are put to together in that order. I speak as someone whose written English is bad myself so i'm not being critical - but I need help there!

Now to be clear I was not saying I disagreed with what you are trying to say - rather, the way your saying it is not good. You are quite correct to make the point that prior to the incarnation there was God the son, and that in the incarnation the God Man Jesus Christ was born and it is therefore not just anachronistic, but also theological error, to refer to the pre-incarnate person of the Son as Jesus - however to say Jesus was 'in deity' is to make God a pool that can be dipped into and pulled out of - the son was not 'in deity' he was fully God, equal with the father in every respect.