The Impeccability of Christ

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

TCGreeK: 1. Now we're getting to the heart of the matter.

2. Romans 5:12 to begin with. Let's start with that:

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

3. Each verb is an aorist verb, signifying a snapshot action, and all humanity was a part of the snapshot action.

HP: What the heart of the matter we are getting to? What I am waiting for is the verse that states we all sinned in Adam. I don’t know about you, but I wasn’t around then.

 

[TCGreek]

Sin entered the world through Adam
With sin came death
Death spread to all
Because all sinned.

Therefore, they all sinned in Adam.

 

[charles_creech78]

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned. Why don't you finish all of the verses after this one. And then we will talk.

 

[charles_creech78]

Rom 5:13 For vntill the Law sinne was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no Law.
Rom 5:14 Neuertheles, death reigned from Adam to Moses, euen ouer them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adams transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.What figure was him to come. Jesus Christ and note in the scripture even over them that HAD NOT SINNED. Rom 5:19 For as by one mans disobedience( ADAMS)many were made sinners: so by the obedience of one, (JESUS CHRIST) shall many bee made righteous. What was Christ OBEDIENT TO? The law and you can only become a sinner by braking the law. The law was given by moses but GRACE AND TRUTH came by Jesus Christ.Rom 5:20 Moreouer, the Lawe entred, that the offence might abound: but where sinne abounded, GRACE did much more abound. Where did Grace come from again? Jesus Christ.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

TCGreek: Sin entered the world through Adam
With sin came death
Death spread to all
Because all sinned.

Therefore, they all sinned in Adam.

HP: Tell me if I am making a proper deduction with the logic I employ.

Child birth entered the world through Adam.
With child birth came pain.
Pain spread to all.
Because all have been born

Therefore, all were born and experienced pain in Adam.

 

[TCGreek]

HP: Tell me if I am making a proper deduction with the logic I employ.

Child birth entered the world through Adam.
With child birth came pain.
Pain spread to all.
Because all have been born

Therefore, all were born and experienced pain in Adam.

Pain in child birth is only applicable to women. What then is your point?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

My point is simply you cannot conclude "Therefore, they all sinned in Adam' due to the fact that death passed upon all men as a result of our physical connection to him. Scripture does not state or imply your conclusion.

 

[TCGreek]

My point is simply you cannot conclude "Therefore, they all sinned in Adam' due to the fact that death passed upon all men as a result of our physical connection to him. Scripture does not state or imply your conclusion.

Question: What is the meaning then of "because all sinned" in its syntactic connection to the rest of the verse?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

TCGreek: Question: What is the meaning then of "because all sinned" in its syntactic connection to the rest of the verse?

HP: The verse simply states that due to the fact that all sin, death passes upon all men. That is very interesting in light of two men that did not see death, not even for a moment. They were simply translated.

 

[TCGreek]

HP: The verse simply states that due to the fact that all sin, death passes upon all men. That is very interesting in light of two men that did not see death, not even for a moment. They were simply translated.

I notice you are rearranging the verse. The Bible is not a science book.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

TCGreek: I notice you are rearranging the verse. The Bible is not a science book.

HP: I don’t get the science book thing. It certainly answers a lot of scientific questions in my mind. As for the text, I am not rearranging anything. The text simply states in the last part why death passed upon all men, “for all have sinned.”

You completely add to the text an idea completely foreign to it with your remark of ‘all sinning in Adam.’ Where in the text is that novel idea stated or implied?

 

[TCGreek]

HP: I don’t get the science book thing. It certainly answers a lot of scientific questions in my mind. As for the text, I am not rearranging anything. The text simply states in the last part why death passed upon all men, “for all have sinned.”

You completely add to the text an idea completely foreign to it with your remark of ‘all sinning in Adam.’ Where in the text is that novel idea stated or implied?

1. This is what the verse says: "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned."

2. Through one man's sin death entered the world and death came to all men because all sinned. Death comes to all of us because we all sinned in Adam, for he was our representative head.

3. By a science book I mean, God can do whatever He wants whenever. We can't measure His activities like you do in science.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

TCG: 1. This is what the verse says: "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned."

HP: OK, I’ll buy this one.

TCG: 2. Through one man's sin death entered the world and death came to all men because all sinned. Death comes to all of us because we all sinned in Adam, for he was our representative head.

HP: Can you point to the Greek words that you get “because we all sinned in Adam, for he was our representative head?”

 

[TCGreek]

HP: OK, I’ll buy this one.



HP: Can you point to the Greek words that you get “because we all sinned in Adam, for he was our representative head?”

Why would Paul say death entered the world through Adam if he wasn't our representative head?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

TCGreek: Why would Paul say death entered the world through Adam if he wasn't our representative head?

HP Could it be that he was simply the first human to die due to sin? Why not? What demands some federal headship dogma to be read into the text that is not stated or implied?

 

[TCGreek]

HP Could it be that he was simply the first human to die due to sin? Why not? What demands some federal headship dogma to be read into the text that is not stated or implied?

Because such conclusion goes against your theology.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

TCG: Because such conclusion goes against your theology.

HP: It simply is not stated or implied by the text.

 

[TCGreek]

HP: It simply is not stated or implied by the text.

1. "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned."

2. Why do some babies die at birth if they have not committed any sins of their own?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

TCGreek: 1. "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned."

2. Why do some babies die at birth if they have not committed any sins of their own?

HP: Physical depravity. That is a natural consequent of sin. Let me ask you, what law did such infants transgress? “Where there is no law, sin is not imputed.”

 

[TCGreek]

HP: Physical depravity. That is a natural consequent of sin. Let me ask you, what law did such infants transgress? “Where there is no law, sin is not imputed.”

1. So the sin of one man has really affected his posterity!

2. That asking of that question is to only prove what Paul was saying all along about the sin of the one man Adam impacting his posterity.