The Impeccability of Christ

[TCGreek]

It is not a sin to get thirsty. It is not a sin to get tired. It is not a sin to be picked up and held like a baby. Jesus did not sin because He could not sin. To have sinned would make Him a sinner today when He was sinless yesterday. His immutability would not allow it.

Now that is putting things into perspective.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

TCGreek: Heresies are born when we attempt to go beyond what is written and are not content with secret will of God.

HP: To go beyond what is written is a very subjective thing. Does Scripture say that Christ did not sin or that Christ could not sin? Chapter and verse please

 

[Pastor_Bob]

What is the "down side" to having Christ victorious over sin in a temptation-trial-suffering context where He COULD fail but stoof firm and did not?

What do we miss/lose/suffer in that case?

If Christ could have sinned, then He had a decision to make when tempted by Satan to fall down and worship him. Christ did not have to think about it. He was determined to do the will of His Father from the very beginning. I disagree with an earlier post implying that He tried to get out of Calvary. To have an impeccable Christ is to validate His claims that He and the Father “are one.”

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Pastor Bob: To have sinned would make Him a sinner today when He was sinless yesterday. His immutability would not allow it.

HP: But He hasn’t and He did not, and He will not, even if He could. Where does it say that His immutability would not allow the possibility to exist? Is that going beyond Scripture?

What does love mean to you? Is love a fixed static state of being or an active vibrant expression of choice?

 

[TCGreek]

HP: To go beyond what is written is a very subjective thing. Does Scripture say that Christ did not sin or that Christ could not sin? Chapter and verse please

HP,

1. Pastor_Bob's post #20 is also my answer. If that answer is not enough for you, then I'm afraid I cannot venture another.

2. I'm comfortable with what I don't know. But what I know about Christ is that while in the flesh He was perfectly God and unable to sin. I know of no other answer.

3. I'm sorry if that is too simple and doesn't work for you.

 

[BobRyan]

If Christ could have sinned, then He had a decision to make when tempted by Satan to fall down and worship him.

Indeed - a short cut was being offerred for the price of a moment of humiliation. Far more humiliation was in store at the cross and then 2000 more years of sin and suffering. But Christ chose obedience to the Father's will instead.


And the downside is??

I disagree with an earlier post implying that He tried to get out of Calvary.

"Father IF it be possible let this cup pass from me - never the less NOT my will but THY will be done".

You say you differ with this? Or you are saying that this is the way to say "I am unwaivering in my determination to go through with this just as we planned - no problem here full steam ahead as far as I am concerned"??

I would have to say that your point does not appear to bear out given that text.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

TCGreek: 2. I'm comfortable with what I don't know. But what I know about Christ is that while in the flesh He was perfectly God and unable to sin. I know of no other answer.

HP: You are the one that used the “H” word, not I . Where does Scripture state that Christ was “unable to sin?” Is that going beyond Scripture?

 

[charles_creech78]

Write two different paragraphs.

Like this.

Your post would be easier to read like this:

How do you make it like that?

 

[charles_creech78]

HP: To go beyond what is written is a very subjective thing. Does Scripture say that Christ did not sin or that Christ could not sin? Chapter and verse please

1Pe 2:21 For euen hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for vs, leauing vs an example, that yee should follow his steps 1Pe 2:22 Who did no SINNIE, neither was guile found in his mouth. 1Pe 2:23 Who when hee was reuiled, reuiled not againe; when hee suffered, hee threatned not, but committed himselfe to him that iudgeth righteously 1Pe 2:24 Who his owne selfe bare our sinnes in his owne body on the tree, that wee being dead to sinnes, should liue vnto righteousnesse, by whose stripes ye were healed.

 

[BobRyan]

HP: To go beyond what is written is a very subjective thing. Does Scripture say that Christ did not sin or that Christ could not sin? Chapter and verse please

Exellent point.

No way to answer it.

 

[TCGreek]

HP: You are the one that used the “H” word, not I . Where does Scripture state that Christ was “unable to sin?” Is that going beyond Scripture?

1. Please don't get the impression that I thought you were venturing some kind of heresy. I was just making a general statement that I know you would agree with.

2. With that said, I encourage you to do a bit of systematizing. Work with the biblical data and see what you come up with.

3. Post #20 is a good place to start.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Pastor Bob: If Christ could have sinned, then He had a decision to make when tempted by Satan to fall down and worship him.

HP: Is there something sinister about having a decision to make? Scripture is replete with instances where God decided or allowed man to make the decision.

Just for argument sake, if Christ could have made decisions to sin or not, but always chose the right thing, how is that not being perfect as He was, is , and forever more will be? Why does a choice have to somehow negate God as being the same yesterday today and forever? Can you not trust a God that actually has a choice He can make?

Is not God sovereign? Can God make a choice if He wants to?

 

[Pastor_Bob]

James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Jesus had no inherited sin nature; the necessary result His virgin birth. Jesus had no inward lust to correspond with an outward temptation. Jesus was sinless, perfect, and spotless, and was so before the foundations of the world were ever laid.

You and I yield to temptation because inside of us there is a lust or desire that corresponds with the temptations we face and we sin. Jesus did not have such lusts of His own.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Pastor Bob: You and I yield to temptation because inside of us there is a lust or desire that corresponds with the temptations we face and we sin. Jesus did not have such lusts of His own.

HP: No, we don’t yield just because it is there. Sin is not force or coercion, it is a choice of the will. Choice denotes two or more possibilities. We sin because we willing yield to the temptation that lust produces.

 

[BobRyan]

It is not a sin to get thirsty. It is not a sin to get tired. It is not a sin to be picked up and held like a baby.

True - but it is a change. your argument is that no change was possible.

Jesus did not sin because He could not sin.

Yes that is your position - but how to prove it?

To have sinned would make Him a sinner today when He was sinless yesterday. His immutability would not allow it.

Which get's us back to "He was not a baby yesterday but He became a baby".

Your argument is "no change" possible.

Seems like change happened.

God did not get hungry and could not be tempted.

Christ got hungry - Christ was tempted.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[TCGreek]

HP: No, we don’t yield just because it is there. Sin is not force or coercion, it is a choice of the will. Choice denotes two or more possibilities. We sin because we willing yield to the temptation that lust produces.

The nature of Christ and the nature of all other humans, were they the same at birth?

 

[Pastor_Bob]

To go beyond what is written is a very subjective thing. Does Scripture say that Christ did not sin or that Christ could not sin? Chapter and verse please

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

How could Christ be the express image of God’s person if He could have sinned? God cannot sin. His Son, who is the express image of His person, cannot sin either.

Jesus Himself states that He could not sin. There is no unrighteousness in Him. Nothing in Him that would have the propensity to sin.
John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Paul (The author of Hebrews in my opinion – but that is another thread) tells us that Christ, although 100% man, was definitely not like the rest of us. He was undefiled and separate from sinners.
Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

 

[BobRyan]

James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Jesus had no inherited sin nature; the necessary result His virgin birth.

True.

Lucifer also had not sin nature.

Adam also had no sin nature.

These were really tempted and in their case they really fell.

Christ was tempted - had a sinless nature -- did not fall.

Jesus had no inward lust to correspond with an outward temptation. Jesus was sinless, perfect, and spotless, and was so before the foundations of the world were ever laid.

True.

You and I yield to temptation because inside of us there is a lust or desire that corresponds with the temptations we face and we sin. Jesus did not have such lusts of His own.

True.

But as the point above shows - having a sinless nature never placed them beyond temptation or the possibility of falling.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

TCGreek The nature of Christ and the nature of all other humans, were they the same at birth?

HP: I will let Scripture answer that for us. Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

God became man. What constitutes being made a man TCG?

 

[BobRyan]

The nature of Christ and the nature of all other humans, were they the same at birth?

No - we have a sinful nature. Christ did not.