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The KJV...the "Model T Bible Version

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by robycop3, Mar 14, 2020.

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  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    The Model T was produced from 1909 through 1927. Henry Ford had it made from the best materials available, with the latest engineering designs. His assembly lines became so efficiant that a car could be made from parts every 93 minutes.

    During its production run, the Model T was made into dozens of variations. American LaFrance Co. modified some 900 of them into firetrucks. Some of the other variants made were touring cars, racing cars, various kinds of trucks, "sportabouts", & luxury cars. Over time, innovations such as electric starters, electric windshield wipers, better headlights & brake lights, etc. were added.

    The Model T was the original SUV, being able to negotiate many wagon paths & rough, unpaved roads, & to cross many creek beds. However, this car still rode roughly over smooth surfaces. But this car remained easy for most owners to keep in repair.

    However, tech for cars was increasing, & other cars were offering more features than the Model T, & also, modern paved roads were being laid, enabling cars to go faster more-smoothly. So, Ford replaqced the Model T with the Model A, suited for modern roads. But to this day, the Model T remains the 8th best-selling car model of all time, with over 16 million units made.

    The KJV is a "Model T" Bible version. It was the best English version of its day, offering such features as easily-read marginal notes, the Apocrypha, an "Easter-Finder", & an outstanding preface. In time, it replaces virtually every other English version in common use. And the British govt. which held sway over most of the English-using world, outlawed the printing or sale of any other English version.

    But the English language changed over time, especially in countries outside of Britain, & the language style of the KJV fell increasingly out of use. Also, many more Scriptural mss.had been discovered, bringing the wording of some verses into question, as well as better translation tools being used, which mshowed some goofs & booboos in the KJV. Thus, modern English Bible versions began to be made, which are in modern language, & correct many of the KJV's errors.

    Now, the KJV remains a viable Bible version, same as the Model T remains a car. However, same as the Model T, the KJV is behind times when compared to modern versions.

    God has caused His word to be translated into OUR language, & there's no valid reason not to read it & preach it in our own language. We don't drive Model Ts every day, so there's no reason to use only a "Model T" Bible version!
     
    #1 robycop3, Mar 14, 2020
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  2. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Interesting analogy.
     
    #2 Salty, Mar 14, 2020
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is the bad Greek texts being used over the real better readings of the NT. This is why the NKJV remains currently the best choice of the modern Bibles. (I personally have gone back to using the KJV.) But if I recommend a modern Bible, the NKJV.
     
    #3 37818, Mar 14, 2020
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  4. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    [Luk 2:14 KJV] Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

    [Luk 2:14 ESV] "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among those with whom he is pleased!"

    The significant difference in the translation of this verse is monumental to me.

    The KJV says "peace, good will toward men." This is a universal blessing to non-repentant and repentant sinners.

    The ESV restricts the blessing to God's elect. This is consistent with God's promises to His children throughout scripture. He has made no promises of goodwill to the non-elect.
     
    #4 Wesley Briggman, Mar 14, 2020
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  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The best modern translations would be those having a formal philosophy, regardless of the greek texts used in translation!
    Nas/Nkjv/esv
     
    #5 Yeshua1, Mar 14, 2020
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Interesting analogy!
    I would tend to see it more as still having and using the Commodore 64!
     
    #6 Yeshua1, Mar 14, 2020
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  7. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    KJV?........I don't know...........you all read whatever version you want.........it's still MY favorite.
     
    #7 Baptist4life, Mar 14, 2020
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  8. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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    The difference is between Greek Manuscripts. Some of the oldest and the Latin tradition support the ESV. The majority of Greek manuscripts support the KJV.
     
    #8 Conan, Mar 14, 2020
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  9. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for your reply.

    As I pointed out in my post, there is a significant difference in the scope of God's blessings between the two translations. I will chose to identify with the oldest and the Latin tradition that makes this passage more in agreement with other scripture.
     
    #9 Wesley Briggman, Mar 14, 2020
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  10. Origen

    Origen Active Member

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    "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men." (KJV)
    "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among those with whom he is pleased." (ESV)

    The difference is orthographic.

    εὐδοκία - nominative case - KJV
    εὐδοκίας - genitive case - ESV

    The whole matter is just that simple. Nothing strange or n    efarious about it.
     
    #10 Origen, Mar 14, 2020
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  11. Shoostie

    Shoostie Active Member

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    The KJV is no Model T. For one, cars change because technology changes over time. God's word doesn't change over time.

    The KJV is practically unsurpassed by any modern version in its literalism, beauty, and conservative philosophy. Yes, it has some imperfections fixed in later versions, but those later versions have many more imperfections introduced. Yes, the KJV uses dated language, but I like reading something that sounds like the Bible.

    KJV: "Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me." PERFECT! If there's one flaw, it's the use of Junia instead of Junias, but the KJV translators were victims of their source material.

    NIV "Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was." SEVERELY FLAWED! The NIV changes the masculine "kinsmen" to gender-neutral Jews. The NIV just plain lies by using the word "Jews". And, the NIV distorts the verse to imply that these two people are Apostles. If there was something in the KJV to fix, it would have been to use Junias, not Junia, but the NIV deliberately does't fix this. The NIV has a few other problems in this verse, but I accept those problems as honest translations decisions, such as the NIV should have ended the verse with the literal "before me", not the pointless paraphrase "before I was."

    The NIV deliberately contains four falsehoods in one verse, and is otherwise poor quality. While, the KJV innocently contains one possible error. How can anyone claim to love the Truth and use the NIV or other garbage modern translations? (There are some good modern translations, the ESV, NKJV, and the NASB except after the latest update.)
     
    #11 Shoostie, Mar 14, 2020
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  12. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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    That is because of William Tyndale, the man who was the first to translate the New Testament from the original Greek into English and have it printed. He also was the first to translate from the original Hebrew before being put to death. Most of those beautiful passages in the KJV are his translations.

    Tyndale Society Home Page
     
    #12 Conan, Mar 14, 2020
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  13. Shoostie

    Shoostie Active Member

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    What does that have to do with anything? Translations lean very heavily on earlier translations. The Tyndale's own translation is not a viable for several reasons (numerous errors and incompleteness). Most modern translations are ugly and dishonest. The KJV is neither.
     
    #13 Shoostie, Mar 14, 2020
  14. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for sharing your knowledge

    The case, nominative or genitive, in this case makes a huge difference in what was written and how it was translated.

    Both cannot be correct. As I stated in a previous post, the genitive case makes the translation consistent with other scripture.

    My goal:
    [2Ti 2:15 ESV] Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.
     
    #14 Wesley Briggman, Mar 14, 2020
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  15. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Oh Roby!... ONLY YOU would compare The Word Of God KJV to a Model-T... You know what Roby in your own words, you are as phony as a Ford Corvette... Brother Glen:)

    Btw... My avatar is Tyndale... You don't think I know the KJV?

    English?... What part of this English don't YOU understand?

    Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
     
    #15 tyndale1946, Mar 14, 2020
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  16. Origen

    Origen Active Member

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    Thank you.

    Agreed.

    Also correct.

    No disagreement there. It should be everyone's goal.
     
    #16 Origen, Mar 14, 2020
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  17. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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    The beauty of the KJV.


    Yes, Matthews Bible, The great Bible, Bishops Bible, Geneva Bible, King James Version, Revised Version, American Standard Version, Revised Standard Version, New King James Version, New Revised Standard Version and English Standard Version all go back to William Tyndales translations. Especially in The Gospels/Acts.
    Both King James and the 1611 translators disagree with you. Remember King James's rules...
    History of the King James Version

    14. These translations to be used, when they agree better with the text than the Bishops' Bible: Tyndale's, Coverdale's, Matthew's [Rogers'], Whitchurch's [Cranmer's], Geneva.
     
    #17 Conan, Mar 14, 2020
  18. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I like the KJV. I really dont care what other people think about it.
     
    #18 Reynolds, Mar 14, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2020
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  19. Origen

    Origen Active Member

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    I said nothing negative about the KJV. I merely pointed out the reason for the difference between the two translations.
     
    #19 Origen, Mar 14, 2020
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  20. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I didnt mean to quote your post. I meant to quote the O.P.
    Sorry
     
    #20 Reynolds, Mar 14, 2020
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