The Lord's Prayer

[targus]

If all of our sins are forgiven - past, present and future - why would Jesus instruct us to ask for forgiveness over and over again each day?

 

[ReformedBaptist]

If all of our sins are forgiven - past, present and future - why would Jesus instruct us to ask for forgiveness over and over again each day?

Sanctification. :jesus:

 

[targus]

How does asking for forgiveness over and over sanctify us?

Doesn't it show a lack of faith in the completed work on the cross?

 

[Marcia]

How does asking for forgiveness over and over sanctify us?

Doesn't it show a lack of faith in the completed work on the cross?

We ask forgiveness because we are told to (Lord's Prayer and 1 John 1.9) and because this keeps us humble. When we sin and ask forgiveness, we do so realizing we have been forgiven but wanting to confess and receive the forgiveness consciously, remembering the great price paid for this on the cross.

Knowing our sins are forgiven and asking for forgiveness are 2 different things.

 

[trustitl]

We are not to pray the" Lord's Prayer" to be sanctified nor to keep ourselves humble. We are sanctified by the blood of Christ and are humbled in our mind as we acknowledge who God is and who we are. If saying the "Lord's Prayer" helps you do that, fine, but it is now what it is for.

Christ was teaching this to the Jews when the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand. This is not a kingdom of God prayer. If you want to say it is you will end up in a real rabbit trail trying to explain away a lot of scripture.

For example: Matt. 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Surely our forgiveness is not based on our forgiving others.

 

[Marcia]

So are you saying we should not ask for forgiveness?

 

[sag38]

Targus, why did Jesus insist on washing Peter's feet? After all, Peter was a believer.

 

[Matt Black]

As a Christian, when I sin, I hurt God and harm my relationship with Him. It is eminently appropriate that I therefore apologise to Him and seek His forgiveness each time I sin in order to seek restoration of that damaged relationship. Let me use an analogy (imperfect as all analogies are): my wife and I occasionally exchange cross words. Now, that doesn't mean that we're any less married let alone that the marriage is at an end, but it does mean we have to kiss and make up afterwards to restore the relationship to where it was.

And, of course, the main reason we should pray the Lord's Prayer is that Jesus commanded it! Nuff said! (On that point, I have no idea where Trustitl gets the notion that it was just for the Jews from - that ain't in my Bible!)

 

[targus]

Knowing our sins are forgiven and asking for forgiveness are 2 different things.

If we know that our sins are already forgiven why ask for it again?

That doesn't make sense to me.

To continue to ask each day for something that we have already been given sounds like vain repetition. Why would Jesus tell us to pray with vain repetition?

Maybe all of our sins are not forgiven - past, present and future - when we are saved.

And if we can be saved and then unsaved and then saved again over and over...

This is all getting very confusing.

 

[Matt Black]

Does my post above assist?

 

[targus]

As a Christian, when I sin, I hurt God and harm my relationship with Him. It is eminently appropriate that I therefore apologise to Him and seek His forgiveness each time I sin in order to seek restoration of that damaged relationship. Let me use an analogy (imperfect as all analogies are): my wife and I occasionally exchange cross words. Now, that doesn't mean that we're any less married let alone that the marriage is at an end, but it does mean we have to kiss and make up afterwards to restore the relationship to where it was.

And, of course, the main reason we should pray the Lord's Prayer is that Jesus commanded it! Nuff said! (On that point, I have no idea where Trustitl gets the notion that it was just for the Jews from - that ain't in my Bible!)

So when we sin we harm our relationship with God?

And if we fail to ask forgiveness for our sins over and over are we still saved?

If we are still saved - how was our relationship with God damaged?

 

[trustitl]

but it does mean we have to kiss and make up afterwards to restore the relationship to where it was.

That is kind of sad. My wife and I have learned to not rely on asking for forgiveness as a condition for restoration. We know when the other one is over acting stupid. It is then that we can kiss and move on.

And, of course, the main reason we should pray the Lord's Prayer is that Jesus commanded it! Nuff said! (On that point, I have no idea where Trustitl gets the notion that it was just for the Jews from - that ain't in my Bible!)

I never said it was only for the Jews. I said he was teaching this to the Jews when the kingdom of heaven was at hand.

Jesus also said to cut off your hand, pluck out your eyes, and only prayer in your closet. Doing those? Nuff said.

It is similar to the law. Remember, Matthew is an Old Testament book.

 

[trustitl]

So are you saying we should not ask for forgiveness?

No. It is just not a condition to gtting my sins forgiven or restoring my relationship with God. I just need to repent (that is, turn my heart back to God). I will then thank Him for forgiving me, not ask Him to.

I John 1:9 has become the protestants replacement to the RC confessional. This verse is to unbelievers and is how we get saved (cleaned from all righteousness.) We don't need to get saved over and over again.

 

[Matt Black]

That is kind of sad. My wife and I have learned to not rely on asking for forgiveness as a condition for restoration. We know when the other one is over acting stupid. It is then that we can kiss and move on.

So you never apologise to each other??!

I never said it was only for the Jews. I said he was teaching this to the Jews when the kingdom of heaven was at hand.

The same can be said of all His teaching - are we to likewise disregard it? Perhaps I should tear the Gospels out of my Bible then.

Jesus also said to cut off your hand, pluck out your eyes, and only prayer in your closet. Doing those?

Metaphorically, yes. Aren't you?

It is similar to the law. Remember, Matthew is an Old Testament book.

Er...in my copy of the Bible it's in the New Testament. And the Lord's Prayer is also in Luke's Gospel, which I think you'll find is also in the New Testament

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

When one of my kids do something wrong and I know they have done something wrong and they do not come to me and 'confess' and ask me to forgive them, I feel hurt.

God feels the same way when we do not confess to Him and ask for forgiveness.

The Lord's Prayer is also a way of communicating with God. If my kids tell me they love me, but never talk to me, I would be hurt.

I believe God feels the same way...

 

[grace56]

Wow, all you so called Christians are second guessing how the Lord told us to pray. When did that happen?

Grace56

 

[Matt Black]

Meaning?

As far as I'm concerned, there's no second guessing: both Matthew's and Luke's Gospels clearly record how the Lord told us to pray so, for me, it's a no brainer.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Ditto, Matt!

 

[superwoman8977]

So when we sin we harm our relationship with God?

And if we fail to ask forgiveness for our sins over and over are we still saved?

If we are still saved - how was our relationship with God damaged?

Wow I was just asking myself the same question as I read this. I am not perfect and the Lord knows this believe me I have done enough to last me till time to head to the grave but that doesnt mean if I dont stop and ask forgiveness for every single thing I do wrong that damages my relationship with Him. He knows me, He knows my heart, He knows where I am at in my walk with Him, I get so tired of people making salvation this like conditional thing like if we do this and do that we can damage our salvation. God doesnt work this way I know above all first and foremost that I am a child of God and nothing is going to change that.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Asking for forgiveness (after we are saved) has nothing to do with salvation, it has to do with our fellowship with God.

I guess it all depends on how much we want to follow the Scriptures...