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the miracles in the Bible

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Goinheix

New Member
in the Bible, God's miracles can be amusing and great, but the porpose of a mirecle is never to be an amusement or a display of power with wonderfull features.
In the Bible the miracles have always a clear porpose in each case. But unfortunately some christians only see the wonder and amusement instead of the real meaning and porpose of it.
Aparently, for many christians the idea of a miracle is not other than demostrating that God power is above natural laws and logic.
In my opinion is God who did stablished all natural laws and is Him the first to respect those laws.
A miracle is not at all a rupture or infraction of God law for the nature.
All miracles can be explained as acts of God that dont breack any natural law.
Unfortunately, for too many christians, if a miracle is not breaking a natural law is not a miracle...and God dont do anything without breaking natural law.

What if a miracle or all miracles can be explainig as God manipulating the nature without breaking it? Is that too ofensive for you?
 

preachinjesus

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It is becoming more and more clear that your understanding of Scripture and theology is not evangelical and marginally orthodox.
 

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
A miracle is something natural or supernatural that is uniquely timed to bring glory to God. My daughter's healing is supernatural. Even the best pancreatic surgeons in the country can't explain why she is better. We can. GOD
 

Tom Bryant

Well-Known Member
Goinheix,
The miracle you need to know for certain about is the new birth from on high that happens when you really repent and believe in the Lord Jesus.

If you will experience that miracle all the false teachings that you have posted on this site will be corrected.
 

Skandelon

<b>Moderator</b>
What if a miracle or all miracles can be explainig as God manipulating the nature without breaking it? Is that too ofensive for you?
Out of curiosity:

1. How does one explain the virgin giving birth to a child using only 'natural' means?

2. How does one explain the resurrection (any of them) using only 'natural' means?

3. WHY would you feel to need to go to such great lengths to do so?
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
What if a miracle or all miracles can be explainig as God manipulating the nature without breaking it? Is that too ofensive for you?
Often God uses natural means in a miracle. But it is still a miracle nonetheless. Here is a good example.

Nathan, Dothan, and Abiram had rebelled against Moses.

Here is what Moses said:
19 If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the LORD hath not sent me.
30 But if the LORD make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD. (Numbers 16:29-30)
--The earth opening her mouth is an obvious reference to an earthquake.

And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them:
32 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. 33 They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation. (Numbers 16:31-33)
--The earthquake happened. It happened immediately, as soon as Moses finished speaking those words. It was a miracle because of the timing. Moses had no knowledge that any earthquake was coming. He was not a seismologist. It was God that told him of the manner of punishment that these men would receive, and God gave it to them in this supernatural way; supernatural because it came at the exact time when Moses said it would. Moses did not have the power to cause the earth to open; thus it was supernatural.
The Lord, however, does choose to use common events such as this whenever possible. It is the timing of the events that make them supernatural. You cannot command earthquakes at any time you like, or any time in your life for that fact. You are not God.

The miracles of Christ were above nature. They demonstrated his deity. They were not simply earthquakes. They went beyond nature, against the laws of nature--that which you claim was not done.

1. He took a few fishes and a little bread, and with it fed 5,000 men. Fish and bread do not multiply on their own so quickly. Nature cannot explain this. This is against nature. It is supernatural--above nature; outside the realm of nature.
2. He walked on water, and bid Peter to do the same. No man in history could do that and did do that. This is above and outside the realm of nature. Gravity dictates that a man should sink. They did not sink.
3. He changed water into wine. This was supernatural--beyond the realm of natural laws. One does not get wine from water. It is impossible. It is supernatural.
4. He calmed the sea. He had power over the waves of the sea. Even the sea obeyed him. He had power over his own creation. No man can bring the Creation under his power. But Jesus of Nazareth could.
5. In Mark 2 he healed a man with a withered hand and then he forgave his sins. Even the Pharisees acknowledged that only God forgives sins. The healing was evidence that he could forgive sins. The many healings that he did were evidences of his deity. No one else could do that. He worked without medicine. (Although you might attribute healings to natural causes, the great number of healings can only be attributed to the deity of this man--Jesus of Nazareth--who he was known as. See Mat.13:55.
6. The greatest miracle of all, other than his own resurrection, was the resurrection of Lazarus. Lazarus had been dead four days already. He lie in a tomb bound in grave clothes which weigh about 100 pounds. Martha protested, "Lord, by this time he stinketh." He was beginning to rot. Yet Jesus went to the tomb. John 11:35, the shortest verse in the Bible, showing human compassion, simply says: "Jesus wept." Then Jesus commanded, "Lazarus come forth!" And Lazarus came out of the tomb grave clothes and all. And they unbound him. And he stood before him without any effect of being dead whatsoever. No man could do this except God himself. Jesus of Nazareth brought Lazarus ought of the grave. He raised him from the dead. He gave him life. This is against the laws of nature. It is supernatural--above and beyond all laws of nature. Can you do this? No of course not. It is not natural. It goes against nature. It demonstrates the deity of this man, Jesus of Nazareth.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
23Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.

24But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

25And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.




many see or hear of Jesus miracles, and do not believe...is that you?

37But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:

38That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

39Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

40He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

41These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
many of us did not believe in Jesus at one time, and we also would deny His person and work...as you are doing now,

You question the kenosis, omniscience, now miracles.

God has purposed to save a multitude of sinners In His Son..All God draws to the Son,and grants saving faith to,will believe in all these things that you question/deny.....They might not fully understand all aspects of it,or be able to fully understand exactly what God is doing in them......but they all come, they all believe,through a God given faith.
If you do not have this saving faith that all of God's children are given,enabling them to welcome truth...I would stop posting false ideas, and instead seek God's face in prayer ,asking if God will have mercy on you.
To deny the Son of God means you do not have The Father, or Spirit also.
 
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Goinheix

New Member
It is becoming more and more clear that your understanding of Scripture and theology is not evangelical and marginally orthodox.

if you think that my understanding of the scriptures are not evangelical...you have to prove it. You must quote a statement of faith, a confesional of any evangelical church saying different than me.

you are reported.
 

Goinheix

New Member
Out of curiosity:

1. How does one explain the virgin giving birth to a child using only 'natural' means?

2. How does one explain the resurrection (any of them) using only 'natural' means?

3. WHY would you feel to need to go to such great lengths to do so?

3. Because I strongly believe in a God that is not changing and is not changing his creation. Because I believe that God do not breack the same laws that he have stablished.

2. Resurrection is explained by the fact tha the life is in God, in Christ. Actually, the life itself is Christ...life and resurrection. Jesus, Paul and many other prophets did bring life back to a body with no life...restoring its life.

That is not breaking any natural law. The only difficulty is to explain how or why the desd body did not enter into corruption in the meanwhile. Any how, I dont say that I have the answer for every single question or miracle.

1. The virginal conception was a miracle. We all agree. We do not agree in if that miracle included a break of natutal laws. I dont have all aswers. In the 1970`we did know litle of human conception. At that time we - the new born - had the question on fron where it came the male cromosomes of Jesus. In the next decades we knew abou in vitro conception, and later of clonning, and more recently abot the human genoma. Aparently we humans did not discovered yet the key to explain the virginal conception withou breaking natural laws. We need to be patient.
 

Goinheix

New Member
Goinheix,
The miracle you need to know for certain about is the new birth from on high that happens when you really repent and believe in the Lord Jesus.

If you will experience that miracle all the false teachings that you have posted on this site will be corrected.

First you have to learn to behave as a real christian and to respect the forum rules beside basical human respect. You can not call me a non-christian. That is proving of your lack of any better argument.

you are reported...and will nor recieve any warning at all.
you will be able and encourage to continue with your low attitude and i will be ban for the minimun excuse.
 

Don

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If the contention is that all of Jesus' miracles can be explained within "natural law," then please explain Lazarus.
John 11
1Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.
2(It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.)
3Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.
4When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
5Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus.
6When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode two days still in the same place where he was.
7Then after that saith he to his disciples, Let us go into Judaea again.
8His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again?
9Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.
11These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
15And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.
16Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellowdisciples, Let us also go, that we may die with him.
17Then when Jesus came, he found that he had lain in the grave four days already.
18Now Bethany was nigh unto Jerusalem, about fifteen furlongs off:
19And many of the Jews came to Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.
20Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in the house.
21Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
22But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
28And when she had so said, she went her way, and called Mary her sister secretly, saying, The Master is come, and calleth for thee.
29As soon as she heard that, she arose quickly, and came unto him.
30Now Jesus was not yet come into the town, but was in that place where Martha met him.
31The Jews then which were with her in the house, and comforted her, when they saw Mary, that she rose up hastily and went out, followed her, saying, She goeth unto the grave to weep there.
32Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
33When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled.
34And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.
35Jesus wept.
36Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!
37And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?
38Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.
39Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.
40Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
41Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
42And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
43And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
45Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.
46But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done.
47Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
 

Goinheix

New Member
A miracle is something natural or supernatural that is uniquely timed to bring glory to God. My daughter's healing is supernatural. Even the best pancreatic surgeons in the country can't explain why she is better. We can. GOD

did the doctros take note of that supernatural healing? did they study the case to see how it was possible? did they published the unike and supernatural healing?

if they didnt is because the doctors did undrstood very well how it hapens.
i am happy for your daughter healing...probably it was because of the mercy, love and power of God...a genuine miracle...but without btraking any natural law
 

Tom Bryant

Well-Known Member
First you have to learn to behave as a real christian and to respect the forum rules beside basical human respect. You can not call me a non-christian. That is proving of your lack of any better argument.

you are reported...and will nor recieve any warning at all.
you will be able and encourage to continue with your low attitude and i will be ban for the minimun excuse.

I shall wear your reporting as a badge of honor.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
It is easy to do when you do not know Him.
I know what he said. He said Jesus did not know what he was given at the cross.
1. He was given wine. He knew that. He could probably smell it a good distance before it even got to him.
2. Secondly he refused what they were about to give him because he knew what it was. It was a narcotic meant to dumb the senses. But he needed to "endure the cross," to take the full payment of our sins upon him, not just a part of him--endure all the pain with all his senses in tact. He refused it therefore. He knew what it was.

The statement, repeatedly made by him, that he did not know what was given to him was false. He falsely accused my Savior. And thus my statement was quite accurate.
 
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