The mountains of freewill and election arguing about whose eternal life valley it is

That about sums it up for me.

 

Amen. But I see no arguing here.

 

Hi Christ lifter;

You're declaring this to be an abomination. Just where is this from?
Mike

 

sorry

 

That's fine Christlifter, but NO Calvinist is willing to agree that election is ALSO a human thing. I can elect to believe or not believe. I can elect to hear the word or not hear the word, I can elect to accept the truth or reject the truth.

Election is not solely the domain of God, because HE made us in HIS image.

 

No man seeks after God... no not one.

Christlifter.... Calvary chapel "in the middleism....yuk...
I have more respect for ILL and Wes that stand on a side than one who doesn't at all.

Bad Theology dishonors God and hurts people...
Pink

 

And what side do you say that I am standing on?

I will tell you that I am on Christ's side, not John Calvin's or Jacobus Arminius' side!

I oppose false doctrine espoused by both of them, but Arminius leans more toward Jesus than does John Calvin!

So which side am I on? I am on the OUTSIDE of CALVINISM and The OUTSIDE of ARMINIANISM!

 

Wes... you quack like a duck and look like a duck... your a duck...arminianist. You agree with all of his 5 points... ALL of them... stop lying to yourself.

 

I do not even know what Arminius' points are!

 

We went over this a couple months ago...
You believe "basically" against tulip correct?
TULIP was written in opposition to the Remonstrants (Arminians) in the council of Dordt. You said the remonstrants where correct. Thus, agreeing with them... I understand that you might not have "received" your understanding of your theology directly from this history (by reading a church history book and saying... "I believe in what the remonstrants said!") And you might of came up with it solely by your study, solely secluded by all other teachings of man i.e. studies, pastors, teachers... but this is just what you agree with that's all..

 

Thank you TCassidy,
It appears that I am more in tune with Arminius because, I can see more in God's creation than man's inabilities as defined under Calvinism.

I can see where man does have free will, the bible is full of scriptures that tell us to choose, choice implies free will, human life itself implies free will of man within the constraints of God's creation. Shoot, we have a space station circling the earth every ninety minutes or so, with live human beings on board, it is an exercise of man's will to leave the environment God placed man into. However man must take his own synthetic environment with him, to "slip the surly bonds of earth", and "fly" in order to "touch the hand of God". Man is always seeking to get to closer to God, even without knowing what or where God may be, think about it.

The bible is full of examples of conditional election, Judas being one example of election to fulfill a prophesy.

The bible, especially in Jesus words tells us that His Atonement is for SIN, thus "General Atonement"; in order for man to be able, through man's faith, to have everlasting life. However, not all men will come to faith in God, thus destroying "universal redemption".

The bible tells us of an "unforgiveable sin" and describes it as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Thus the Holy Spirit can be effectually resisted, else there would be no such warning!

The bible is full of scriptures warning the faithful to not fall away. It repeatedly warns of the consequence of doing so. If it is not possible to fall away; and rc on another topic declared that man can change his mind, then there would be no reason whatever to include those warnings to "readers and hearers of the word".

Who reads the Word of God the most? Believers! Why do believers that have no possibility of losing their faith need to be warned against doing so?

Calvinism is quite simply wrong!

 

You saying so does not make it so. Can you support your assertions from scripture?


That's all you'll get TCassidy... A bunch of eisogesis and "your wrongs" ...

 

OK!

"The fall" as you refer to it did not change the man that God created. It changed the relationship that man had with his Creator. The creator is Holy and PURE, man by disobeying the creator, has estranged himself from the creator through sin, all the while man retains every capability and ability that God created man to have in the first place. The alienation between man and God is spiritual, therefore from God's perspective we became dead in spirit, the spiritual connection severed by us. However our spirit remains alive else our flesh could not live. Jesus tells us that it is the spirit that gives life to the flesh. No flesh could live without a living spirit.

Jesus told us that IF we have faith the size of a mustard seed we could tell a mountain to remove itself into the sea. I take that to mean that man with faith has power, while man without faith has no power. It doesn't mean that God's spirit must be in us to have faith! ALL of the greatest accomplishments of mankind were made because man had faith that it could be done. So, Man did not lose that by "falling".

Man did not lose the ability to learn! Man did not lose the ability to communicate! man did not lose anything that God created man to have except the close personal relationship with his creator.

I do not disagree with both, I lean toward Arminian understanding of Election, but just do not accept every jot and tittle of the arminian understanding.

If we are speaking of God the son's atonement of sin, Atonement is not in anyway limited. All the sins of the world have been atoned. Yes, even the sin that Eli's house practiced. The reason there was no Atonement for Eli's house is that Eli's house refused to repent! Because one refuses to repent, there can be no atonement for the one. Atonement deals with sin, but so must the person! Sin no longer has any power over man's salvation because through faith man, even the worst sinners of the world, can have everlasting life. However their faith must be followed and or accompanied by repentance, and confession, else it be dead faith. Eli's family believed there is a God, and may have believed in God because they cursed God continually, the clay telling the potter what to make with it!

God's grace is God's unilateral behavior toward man! He favors ALL mankind, behaving toward all with Grace. God gives no man grace, because God instilled grace as a useable attribute in the species of man. That grace enables man to behave graciously towards whomever the man determines to be gracious toward. We are made in the image of God and our grace works the same way that God's grace works. God is behaving toward us today in his Grace. He allows all mankind to approach him directly regardless of the mans condition. Sinners and saints alike can talk to God, and hear God, and his Word. If that were not the case no man could be saved through faith! No man could have his sins forgiven if he is not able to confess them to God. No man could blaspheme the Holy Spirit! For if God were not in 'communion' with man God would not know that someone had blasphemed. God's grace for man is immutable, and all mankind can and does take advantage of it. It is like the sunshine and the rain, all mankind are treated equal under God's Grace.

I believe that all who live their faith in God will persevere. I believe there are many who claim faith, and yes even some who live by faith and not by sight, who will abandon their faith in God to the miracle making Anti-Christ, thinking him to be Christ returned. I believe that so long as man has the ability to change his own mind, that there is the danger of man changing his faith which resides in the mind and spirit of man.

Only those who stay in the Word of God, and continue in constant communication with God, doing good works, and doing all they can to build their faith in God will persevere.

you falsely accuse me of being a fence sitter, I have no time to sit on a fence while walking the straight and narrow. I either walk with God, or I don't. You can decide for yourself whether or not you think I am Christian, and you can condemn me for not falling for Calvinist dogma, That is your choice, but it has no bearing on the salvation I will be given by my persevering in my faith in God! You cannot be saved for me!

I am Christian of no particular denomination who attends Baptist churches mostly, though I have been Methodist, Studies Catholicism, Mormonism, and Lutheranism. I am a frequent attender of Calvary Chapels, but for now a member of a small Baptist chuch which I live nearby, and trust the pastor who, Like Chuck Smith, delivers the Christian, not the Calvinist nor the Arminian messages.

 

Tcassidy;

Man is a sinner yes but we are not told that man lost his hearing and understanding because of it.

You claim it. Now prove it's true with scripture.

Being dead spiritually is seperation from God and is not a disability to understand and hear the gospel. It is not a moral inability to choose what is against his desires either. We all have to choose what the flesh doesn't like for one reason or another.

In my Bible the word spirit is spelled with a lower case "s" meaning mans spirit.

In the New Testament Jews and Gentiles have no difference.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Where does it say this the word unregenerate It isn't even in scripture. Except for the Calvinist version.

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
It didn't say get saved first and we'll talk later.

I know a four year old that can do better than that for a question. Wes is not pelagain, nor Arminian why can't you just accept that.

The Bible is never wrong but I'll bet you are.

Salvation is never earned but it isn't given to anyone with out faith first and I don't have to redefine words to prove it.

No but the Calvinist interpretation is.
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

No you just gave an innocent brother the third degree with nothing but assumption on your part knowing better all the time.
Shame on you.....
May Christ Shine His light On Us all;
Mike