The Ooooh Song

[SGO]

Hello Forum Readers,


The following essay is my personal opinion.

I am not trying to provoke anyone in particular but I know some may become irritated.

This essay has many aspects of an argument but it reflects the argument I have had in my own mind.

I hope you will still be able to receive me.

Thank you.

It will take a few postings to fit all of it in here.


I have joy.

I would like to present a little of why that is.


The Ooooh Song


Lyrics only.

Here we go!


Ooooh-
ooooh!

Ooooh-
ooooh!

Ooonly the originals are inspired!

Inspired!

Inspired!

Only the originals are inspired!

That is why we have no perfect bible!

 

[SGO]

Like it?

I did for a long time.

And many Christian authorities and academics sing this song every day in public.

And yes, this thread is a cousin to the thread "Only the Originals Are Inspired."

On that thread, no scripture reference was provided where it is written in the bible, "only the originals are inspired."

For such an important doctrine shouldn't there be an abundance of corroboration from the bible itself?

In that thread many arguments and evidences were presented by various forum members as to why the KJV or

any other currently accepted bible translation, in any language, is not inspired but does include, to a large degree, the inspired words of God.

How can we state "only the originals are inspired", and then say we have most of the inspired words today?

Well, copies.

However, an argument was presented on that thread, which used scripture to back its premise.

The scripture does not specifically state that only the originals are inspired, but the presenter, John of Japan,

used Greek grammar and logic to make his case.

 

[canadyjd]

ooooh ooooh ooooh

you make me live

ooooh ooooh oooh

you make me live

ooooh ooooh ooooh

I want to love you

ooooh ooooh ooooh

I want to love you

ooooh ooooh ooooh

peace to you

 

[SGO]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof,
for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:
2 Timothy 3:16

"Given by inspiration" is one word in Greek, the singular adjective θεόπνευστος (theopneustos), meaning, "breathed out by God," or, "the breath of God." This word is what is called a hapax legomenon, a word used only once in the NT. It is used nowhere in secular Greek, and only used in Christian writings long after Paul, so it is probably a word invented by Paul.

Now think about it. The word for "breathed out" is singular, one time. If you breathe "I love you" into your spouse's ear, how many times is that? If you say it again sometime, is that not a separate sentence? If God breathed out the words of Scripture, it was one time. So Paul was referring to the original mss in this statement.
p 4, post 71

John of Japan said that God "breathed out" once.

Since God is not solely in time, that once is very plausible.

Especially from One who does not need oxygen.

However, in time, that is one loooong breath, lasting approximately 1500 years, from Moses to the Apostle John.

But didn't God breathe into all the scriptures as they were written?

Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand,
the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1 Peter 1:11

The Spirit was in them as they wrote in time.

 

[SGO]

Can you please wait to poke fun at me until I am finished posting the essay?
Thank you.

 

[canadyjd]

Can you please wait to poke fun at me when I am finished posting the essay?
Thank you.

I thought you were finished. I will honor your request and I’ll refrain from posting until you say the words, “I am finished posting my essay. You are now free to poke fun of me.”

peace to you

 

[SGO]

So then, do the copies of scripture also have the breath of God?

When our Lord read a passage from a copy of Isaiah in a synagogue,


17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Luke 4:17-21


he called it scripture. He did not make a mistake, He did not say only the original of what I read is true. This copy I read from is true = inspired.

Here are more references where New Testament writers were using copies of the Old Testament to quote from called these copies scripture:

Matthew 21:42, 22;29, 26:54, :56
Mark 12:10, :24, 14:49
Luke 4:21, 24:27, :32, :45
John 5:39, 7:38, 10:35, 13:18, 17;12, 19:24, :28, :36, :37, 20:9,
Acts 1:16, 8:32, :35, 17:2, :11, 18:24, :28
Romans 1:2, 4:3, 9:17, 10:11, 11:2, 15:4, 16:26
1 Corinthians 15:3, :4
Galatians 3:8, :22, 4:30
1 Timothy 5:18
2 Timothy 3:15
James 2:8, :23, 4:5
1 Peter 2:6
2 Peter 1:20, 3:16

 

[SGO]

We call our bible the word of God.

We are born again, a spiritual experience, not a physical experience.

If we are born again by "hearing" the word of God that comes from copies, then the copies must be living.


Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1 Peter 1:23


Do we have anything else from God that is living and perfect?

Oh yes, we have the Holy Spirit of God, the Spirit of His Son, Jesus Christ, the Word of God.

We have had a spiritual birth and even now we are not in the flesh, if we walk in the Spirit.


This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Galatians 5:16


So even while we have fleshly bodies, we are also spiritual beings.

The Spirit of the Son who is in us does not change.


Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, to day, and for ever.
Hebrews 13:8


Jesus Christ is the author of our faith.


Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith...
Hebrews 12:2


Jesus Christ is the author of the bible through His Holy Spirit.



Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1 Peter 1:11


Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Peter 1:20-21

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Revelation 1:1

 

[SGO]

Now on to the KJV.

In the KJV, the majority of the editorial changes dealt with printing errors, spelling, punctuation, and type style.

Are not the words the same as the 1611 edition?

Well, changes are changes.

Just the fact that there have been changes through the years show that the KJV is not perfect.

One count lists over 100,000 changes! (Daniel Wallace, bible.org/article-changes-kjv-1611-illustration)

But we want a perfect, unchanged, and beeyouteaful bible.

Do the said changes alter the meaning or insert other words in place of the ones that were originally there?

Are the KJV's changes as drastic as the changes from the 1978 New International Version to the 2011 revision?

Or the changes from the 1963 New American Standard Version to the 2020 revision?

Both of those and other revised versions are called the word of God by their readers in all of their editions.

I submit that the majority of the KJV's real changes are minor, cosmetic corrections.

 

[SGO]

Hey! I left out Jude 25!

Didn't a forum member in a recent thread state that a whole phrase is missing from that verse in the KJV?

Well, does the person who first made that statement have the original?

Did he use a manuscript or fragment copy?

Isn't what we have now from a long series of copies so how can we absolutely certify it's missing?

The changes in the KJV have not led to errors in its text which change God's intended meaning.

Readability repairs affect the external appearances of the text but not the spiritual meaning.

These cosmetic changes altered and even marred the original 1611 KJV.

The alterations, to some, have cancelled any chance of the KJV being an inspired English translation.

We don't like the idea of having a potentially perfect translation that is changed or marred.

If we demand perfect physical appearance the we cannot have Christ!

His physical appearance was not perfect.


... he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Isaiah 53:2


But Jesus of Nazareth is spiritually perfect, a lamb without blemish.



But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1 Peter 1:19


The living God touched our lives through the gospel in the bible, whichever version was used as the sword of the Spirit.


...and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
Ephesians 6:17

 

[SGO]

The words Jesus wrote (the bible) and spoke are spiritual and living.



It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
John 6:63


So, to me only, the KJV is perfect spiritually, although aspects of the physical text are not perfect.

Jesus is the Word and the Word was made flesh.

Even if the flesh is not perfect by human standards, the Word is perfect.



For most of my 46 years as a Christian, I was very anti-KJV.

The main reason was that the KJV is not in "Koine" English, that is, common English, the language I speak.

This past July, in a thrift store, I picked up a KJV in excellent condition.

As I held that bible in my hands, a thought came into my mind, "Would you like to read it?"

Later, as I read, I had great peace and joy, similar to my born again experience.

Joy, real joy!

Whatever version we choose to read, shouldn't we be able to trust it as the words of God, and read with joy, real joy?

 

[SGO]

Every word of God is pure:
Proverbs 30:5


Prove this scripture:



Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.
Jeremiah 15:16

 

[robycop3]

The words Jesus wrote (the bible) and spoke are spiritual and living.



It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
John 6:63


So, to me only, the KJV is perfect spiritually, although aspects of the physical text is not perfect.

Jesus is the Word and the Word was made flesh.

Even if the flesh is not perfect by human standards, the Word is perfect.



For most of my 46 years as a Christian, I was very anti-KJV.

The main reason was that the KJV is not in "Koine" English, that is, common English, the language I speak.

This past July, in a thrift store, i picked up a KJV in excellent condition.

As I held that bible in my hands, a thought came into my mind, "Would you like to read it?"

Later, as I read, I had great peace and joy, similar to my born again experience.

Joy, real joy!

Whatever version we choose to read, shouldn't we be able to trust it as the words of God, and read with joy, real joy?

The KJV isn't in today's common English because it's 400 years old.

And, it has its shares of goofs & booboos, such as "Easter" in Acts 12:4, & the ADDITION of the words "and shalt be" in Rev. 16:5. There's NO known ancient amnuscript of revelation that has those words in Greek in that verse ! (What did God say about ADDING to His word ?)

Fine to like the KJV better than any other English BV, but it's neither perfect nor the only valid English translation out there. I would much-rather witness to the lost in a language common to both of us. (I've heard so many preachers using the KJV having to interrupt the gist of a sermon to say, "This is what that passage means in OUR language..." )

 

[SGO]

The KJV isn't in today's common English because it's 400 years old.

And, it has its shares of goofs & booboos, such as "Easter" in Acts 12:4, & the ADDITION of the words "and shalt be" in Rev. 16:5. There's NO known ancient amnuscript of revelation that has those words in Greek in that verse ! (What did God say about ADDING to His word ?)

Fine to like the KJV better than any other English BV, but it's neither perfect nor the only valid English translation out there. I would much-rather witness to the lost in a language common to both of us. (I've heard so many preachers using the KJV having to interrupt the gist of a sermon to say, "This is what that passage means in OUR language..." )

Hello robycop3,

This was a personal statement.
I am not going to debate.
When I was a KJV-hater, I was a Hater with a capital H.
I did not have the ammunition you do but I think I may have been harder of heart.
The sin in my life made me very weak and susceptible, I suppose, to the touch I received.

I am the Lord thy God,
which brought thee out of the land of Egypt:
open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it.
Psalm 81:10

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Perhaps I missed it, but it seems you left off your main weapon here--Hebrews 4:12f:

12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.​

 

[robycop3]

Hello robycop3,

This was a personal statement.
I am not going to debate.
When I was a KJV-hater, I was a Hater with a capital H.
I did not have the ammunition you do but I think I may have been harder of heart.
The sin in my life made me very weak and susceptible, I suppose, to the touch I received.

I am the Lord thy God,
which brought thee out of the land of Egypt:
open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it.
Psalm 81:10

You are wise not to debate. The only path for a KJVO trying to defend the KJVO myth is to lose. The KJV has known, proven goofs & booboos.

We should read God's word in OUR language. That's why God caused translations in our English to be made.

 

[Oseas3]

We call our bible the word of God.

Yes, but the most important is to know that the Word is God. This explain why the Word fulfil LITERALLY, for examaples, the prophecies of Isaiah and Malachi, about the birth of John the Baptist, son of Zechariah and Elizabeth, by the way, they both had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years. Luke 1:v.7. The Word is God, so what is witten fulfil LITERAL and NATURALLY, AUTHOMATICALLY.

And what does it say then of JESUS's birth? Whose birth was prophesied in the Old Testament as a whole since Moses?

And what does it say about the destruction of the nation of Israel in the year 70AD, and the great punishments that fell upon the people, according Deuteronomy 28:v.15-68?

I am testifying about some of the biblical prophecies to emphasize that the Word is God, this is why the Scriptures are LITERALLY fulfilled in the time that it was determined to fulfill.

There is also the mysterious birth of Michael in this time as prophesied Daniel, therefore or as a result, the great tribulation will begin and the Word will be fulfilled LITERALLY. The Word is God, understand?
Daniel 12: v. 1-3

12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

God is the Truth, the Word is God.

 

[robycop3]

Yes, but the most important is to know that the Word is God. This explain why the Word fulfil LITERALLY, for examaples, the prophecies of Isaiah and Malachi, about the birth of John the Baptist, son of Zechariah and Elizabeth, by the way, they both had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years. Luke 1:v.7. The Word is God, so what is witten fulfil LITERAL and NATURALLY, AUTHOMATICALLY.

And what does it say then of JESUS's birth? Whose birth was prophesied in the Old Testament as a whole since Moses?

And what does it say about the destruction of the nation of Israel in the year 70AD, and the great punishments that fell upon the people, according Deuteronomy 28:v.15-68?

I am testifying about some of the biblical prophecies to emphasize that the Word is God, this is why the Scriptures are LITERALLY fulfilled in the time that it was determined to fulfill.

There is also the mysterious birth of Michael in this time as prophesied Daniel, therefore or as a result, the great tribulation will begin and the Word will be fulfilled LITERALLY. The Word is God, understand?
Daniel 12: v. 1-3

12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

God is the Truth, the Word is God.

Michael is an archangel, he's NOT Jesus! He was created when the other angels were, long before man was. Remember, he contended with Satan over the body of Moses, long before Daniel's time.

Actually, a MUCH-GREATER punishment fell upon the Jews(not the rest of Israel) beginning 135-136 AD when Hadrian expelled them from their land & dispersed them. They endured great persecution & hatred wherever they went for some 1800 years, surviving as a distinct people only through God's will. This punishment culminated in the nazi holocaust; after that, God began to lift their punishment.

That punishment was part of the "days of vengeance" Jesus prophesied for the Jews, as well as for their murdering Him. The destruction of J & the temple were in fulfillment of the prophecy Jesus made against that generation of Jews alive while He was here.

And, of course, Scripture should be believed LITERALLY AS POSSIBLE. Of course there's some symbolism in it, but the symbols, similes, & metaphors always represent something literal.

 

[Oseas3]

Michael is an archangel, he's NOT Jesus!

Yes, Michael is an archangel, what you are saying it was revealed around two thousand years before you- Jude 1:v.9. It is the Word of God - the Word is God - who teaches us about God's things. Michael is a fellowservant. JESUS sent Michael to speak with John in the isle of Patmos: Revelation 1:v.1&12-13. Michael is like JESUS, he is similar to JESUS. We are speaking of two distinct persons, or two distinct Men, but very very similar.

Actually, I know Michael. In fact, he was in the house of Abraham, and the LORD sent him to Sodom and Gomorrah to free the Lot's family, and to destroy the cities of the wickeds. Also It was he -Michael- who God sent to speak with Moses in the Mount Sina - Act 7:v.30-35:

30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to Moses in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.
31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,
32 Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.
33 Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground.
34 I have seen, I have seen the affliction of my people which is in Egypt, and I have heard their groaning, and am come down to deliver them. And now come, I will send thee into Egypt.
35 This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.

Michael was with Moses all time in Egypt and when the people was carry forth out of Egypt, and when the people went forward in their journay, Michael went before the camp of Israel, and after he removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them: Exodus 14:v.19

God sent Michael to speak with Joshua after Moses's death. Joshua 5:v.13-15.

In the beginning of the Church, JESUS sent Michael to carry the message of Apocalypse to John in the isle of Patmos-Revelation 1:v.1, and now, even now, it is he who will sound the seventh trumpet and, as is written, the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel - Michael -, and with the trump of God -1Thes.4:v.16- and the dead in Christ shall rise first, as is written in Daniel 12:v.3.

And there will be War to cast Satan - the Dragon - the old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, into the bottomless pit.

 

[robycop3]

Actually, it was God Himself who spoke to Moses from the burning bush, as He both told Moses he was now standing on holy ground, & to come no closer. He then said, "I am the God....". Michael couldn't make any ground holy, nor would he call himself God.